How would it be decided who upgraded and who did not? Most other occupations promotions are based on merit and productivity. The issue with attempting to put airline pilots in that model is that we are all standardized. We show up for a trip and fly the trip. Admittedly, there are personality differences but finding a metric to differentiate one pilot from another in this occupation is nearly impossible. I think the current seniority system is functional, but the issue is that you don't take your seniority with you. One seniority list, as has been discussed in previous threads, is probably the most feasible way to neuter management.

One of the most intelligent discussions on this topic ever, even though it's off topic.

Seniority is always there at most large organizations but may be more informal and without providing entitlements. Seniority can still be used for day to day stuff like schedule bidding, jumpseat priority, etc. It would help to create an incentive for pilots to stick with one company without forcing them to stick with one company.

Think how much money regional airlines could save on training costs without entitlement bidding and entitlement upgrades. They could continue to be a starting point for low time pilots at low pay building experience while still being able to attract and retain the experienced pilots they need at higher pay.

Maybe it needs to start at the regional level. The way I see it it's the only way the regionals can beat their self imposed "pilot shortage."

The way I see it now...the regionals exploited the unionized seniority system too much and now that they are major players in the competition to fill cockpits they've found they're overextended. The old game simply won't work for them anymore.

I thought the goal was the eventual implosion and dismantling of the regional model, where all flying transitioned back to the mainline and the end of a sordid, miserable experiment in a C scale. Why would we be trying to come up with ideas to help management continue in their rapacious quest?

Because if the economy turns down, a lot of the major flying will go away. But the majors still need feed. So if the regional airlines are strong perhaps they can stay in business, feeding or even flying long thin routes on their own label. Perhaps no need for a partnership with a major. It's been tried, but not during a major downturn of the economy. Think how Southwest started against the legacies. Who would have thought they would become what they have in 1980?

The exact same way they decided who got hired and not in the first place? By applying and being selected by HR.

The only way I could see for regional pilots to gain power is to take it (of course it could kill off the regional airlines too!). So the plan. Get all reps from all regional airlines to meet. Form a corporation (NOT a union). Get the majority of line pilots to submit apps to that company. The organization then calls all CEO's into a meeting and says "Our company is in business to contract pilots to airlines. We have a lot of pilots that have applied to us. Most seem to currently employed by you. If we hire this is what we are offering the line pilot. Just thought we would give you guys a heads up. When you have no pilots to fly your airplanes we will be glad to contract our pilots to you for XXXXX amount. Ya'll have a good day and we hope to do business with you in the near future. Of course it would be implied that if the airline tries to hire outside of the EXCLUSIVE contract with the organization it will null the contract and ALL contract pilots will stop flying for them instantly. Legally it is doable. Again it would NOT be a union. Pilots would also be required to de-cert ALPA first to get them and their contract out of the way. Just a business suppyling pilots on a contract basis. Of course ALPA could try to unionize the pilots at the new corporation (well, they could try!). Good luck getting pilots on board with this. It would be like a thousand cats in a giant bag.

Not on Doug Parker's side, but after reading the transcript, my first thought was:

"So pilots are willing to agree to and work for sh!t pay and I'm the a55hole?" - Doug Parker

Seems to me if everyone is so sick of the pay, they'd just walk away from the pilot career; or better yet, never even start one at the airlines.

The truth is hard to escape. The first step to recovery is looking in the mirror and saying 'the regional I work for sucks', not ****ing on everybody else's to rationalize or elevate your position.

How does this square with the Railway Labor Act? Might want to vet it with a lawyer who is well versed in the RLA first.

If there were no union contract and HR picked the upgrades, what would prevent them from making an announcement like this?

"Ten CA positions are now open. If interested, please submit a sealed bid containing your wage offer. Awards will be based on lowest cost to the Company and such other factors as HR may deem appropriate."