What Regional To Work For??
 

I am looking to make the jump to the airlines. I live in GA. Have about 1300TT and 250 Multi. Looking for any REAL advice about what regional to work for. Whats better Jets or Props? Ultimatley would like to work for a major and want the quickest path to that goal. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Ooooooh boy, here we go!!!:D

They all suck. Go to the first one that hires you, except Eagle, sorry Eagle guys to long of an upgrade!:D

If I had 20/20 hindsight I would have gone to Skywest.

In the end they are all about the same and you should go to the one which suits your lifestyle the best. In the end it is all about Quality Of Life (QOL) and not really about the money.

Quickest would be a turbo-prop regional....Usually a faster upgrade. Pay is less however. Also make sure that the major you plan to go to accepts turbo-prop time....JetBlue does not accept below 21k lbs.

SKYW, CHQ/Shuttle/RAH, XJT are all fine places to go right now. Seem to be stable, good QOL/contracts, and reasonable upgrade time. You meet the mins for basically all regionals so apply and interview.

Another option would be 135 cargo. You meet 135 mins and could go fly more gaining PIC time versus SIC time. Find one with advancement to jet aircraft like a Lear or Falcon and you would be in good shape. Airnet you fly props for a year then move to the lear. They fly lots.

Good luck.

Here we go again...

This is how it used to be:
-Regionals (Commuters) operated turboprops.
-Almost all of them sucked.
-Pay was criminal.
-QOL was similar to a labor camp.
-1000+ Turbine PIC (in a turboprop) would get you a job at a major airline.
-Commuter pilots would do anything to get that PIC, and would cheerfully put up with all the crap that the entry-level could dish out..after all it was only for 2-3 years.

DANGER: You will get plenty of advise based on the way it used to be...


What changed:
- Regional jets were invented to replace turboprops.
- They were operated by commuters (regionals) using traditional regional pay and work rules (ie crap).
- If RJ's had stayed on the turboprop routes, that would have been OK.
- After 9/11, majors were looking to cut costs...they figured out that they could replace mainline aircraft with RJ's on lightly travelled routes.
- Because regional pilot labor costs are so low, this concept took off in a huge way. Literally thousands of RJ's went into service in a few years.
- Then RJ's grew to 50-70 seats, allowing majors to replace even more mainline aircraft (and pilots).
- End result: Thousands of good mainline jobs were deleted, and replaced with crappy regional jobs based on the the old commuter pay and benefits.


The way it is today:
- There are fewer major jobs and a lot more regional pilots competing for them.
- Realistic competive times are far higher than 1000 PIC for most people.


Two scenarios for you:

1) If you know someone (a pilot or executive) who is well placed at a major that is hiring, then all you need are the published mins for that airline, which might be 1000 turbine PIC or whatever. If this is the case, do whatever it takes to get the required time as quickly as possible (except gojets).

2) If you don't know someone then the reality of getting hired off the street by a major is harsh. You will need plenty of PIC time, but you will also need "whole person" factors to make you more interesting: Masters degree, played college ball, combat experience, published author, ranked amatuer athlete, etc. This situation could improve in the future, but right now you need to look for a regional where you would be happy hanging out for a while...say the next 35 years.

Things to consider:
-Pay: Most regional pay scales look similar, but the work rules that determine HOW the pay scales are applied mean EVERYTHING.
-QOL: If a regional has a one or more large bases in or near cities where you would like to live that is a huge plus.
- RJ's provide better schedules and quality of life than turboprops. Also the jet and glass cockpit time helps fill out your resume. It's OK to start in props, but consider carefully before going to work for a prop-only regional.
- Growth: A regional with known growth will provide faster improvement in QOL and faster upgrade.
- Problems: Some regionals have serious problems with their existing contracts...research these carefully so you know what you're getting into.

Decent Regionals:
Horizon
SkyWest
Air Wisconsin
Republic/Chataqua


OK Regionals with significant problems (which might be resolved soon)
ExpressJet
COMAIR
ASA
Pinnacle
Mesaba


Regionals with major problems which will never be resolved:
American Eagle (long upgrade time is the only real problem here)
Mesa/Freedom/Air Midwest (problems which are too numerous to list)
Go Jets (DO NOT WORK HERE)

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. I don't know enough about some of the smaller prop operators to comment.

I think Rickair nailed it. The only thing I would add is that there will be a lot more hiring to the majors in the next 5 years. The jobs will still be competitive by not nearly as much so.

I think XJT is, should be on the top list despite the 69 planes, I guess thats what rickair is talking about, however CAL increased our block hrs for next year by a considerable amount :)

Not sure I would put the Republic groug under the Decent group? Couple of people I know just walked off the job last month with Shuttle, they said they couldn't take it anymore!? But then again I know of a few more that love it there as well? rickair7777 had it all down there for ya, (Thank You!) they all have there faults and suck big time in some way or another! If you want to stay in GA, go apply at ASA, I am sure they will be glad to teach you about the good life in the regionals! Stay away from GO Jets Please! I will repeat stay away from GO Jets Please!

Hey, thanks guys. This is what I need. Something to weed out the airlines I should not work for and highlight the ones I should. I have friends that work for a lot of the regionals, commut, pinnacle, xjt. ASA is really starting to hire and it looks pretty appealing being in my home state. Should I start out as a jet pilot though? How long can I expect before I start getting PIC time again?

Try starting out in an airplane.....what everyone here has been saying is it dosent matter what you fly.....just get on with someone...... Ask all your friends you have out there flying about there airline, just get on with someone. The last thing you need to worry about is:

A.) If you should fly a jet or not!
B.) If you should fly a jet or not!
And the most important thing to remember is:

A.) Stay away from Go Jets!
B.) Make sure your students don't kill you first in a C172!
C.) Apply everywhere, then worry about where your going to choose!

While it may be hard for many of us to comprehend, a CFI today probably DOES have choices in airline employers... :cool:

For the most part RickAir is correct. I have several friends at XJT and from what I hear they should be ranked up there with SKW.

As for AWAC, yes it's a good company with OK QOL, but if you're (RickAir) going to drop XJT out of the top list for losing 69 a/c then why is AWAC up there? They too are losing flying, Mgmnt seems to be clueless on how to compete and XJT Mgmnt is showing that they care about their labor groups. Read what Saab2000 has to say about AWAC.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...?t=8198&page=2

Don’t get me wrong, AWAC is a good regional but I would put XJT above them.

DO NOT; DON’T EVER FLY FOR Mess-A (Mesa) & BlowJets (GoJet). EXPECILLY BlowJets. If you fly for BlowJets you WILL be viewed as a SCAB, even if you weren’t part of the original pilot group. Pilots will take it as though you don’t care about your brothers (TSA Pilots) and that you support BlowJets, NOT GOOD!!!!!!!!!! Mesa just sucks, search of threads on Mess-a and you will find out that they are bottom feeders with Sh*tty QOL, PAY Package and no real future.

Good luck and be very picky. The regionals are hurting for pilots, let this work in your favor.

I think you should put RickAir's rant as a sticky on the regional column, that way noone willl ever askk that again and theyll always get a solid answer

What flying are they losing? I know they just lost the bid for some new flying, and they lost the United flying and the 146s, but what flying are they losing now? I hadn't heard about anything else.

I would not have a problem recommending AWAC to a newhire. My biggest problem with it is the incredible amount of change we have had.

Also, contrary to popular belief, we are not losing flying. The shrinkage has all already taken place. The loss of the contracts to Skywest for Midwest and some other flying does not mean we shrink. It simply means we will not grow.

For a person who is happy on the East Coast, AWAC is not a bad place. We have what amounts to now an industry-leading contract (or at least equal to others), generally professional managers in the flight department and above all, we have what I would say is quite a good pilot group. We have lots of experienced pilots among our ranks.

The reason I ***** and moan about AWAC is because I did not sign up for what it became shortly after I got here. But all in all, it could also be a lot worse.

I will reiterate what the others say. Don't work for GoJet. It is a scab company which undercuts their supposed brethren at Trans States Airlines. Don't work for Mesa. They have attrocious work rules and a tyrannical owner who puts low costs above all else, including your QOL.

Mesa and Go Jet are the ones to avoid.

Air Wisconsin and Skywest are solid companies and I have no hesitation recommending them.

I can't speak about the others, but I think they are OK. I just talked to a Chautauqua dude recently who will be upgrading around 24 months (probably a slight exageration on his part) and he seemed reasonably happy.

Just don't go to Mesa or Go Jet because you surely don't need to. There are plenty of jobs which will allow you to avoid those companies.

I agree and thank you for the clarification on the flying. Best of luck to all pilots in 07.

Correct, my mistake.

My choices of regionals to work for.

1. Horizon - Best Pay, QOL, Contract, good relationship with pilots and mangement
2. Skywest - Ugrade time and Equipment (They are everywhere)
3. Express - Good Pay, good contract, equipmnet
4. Chautauqua - Ok contract
5. AWAC -
5. ASA - Your location
6. Piedmont - Good pay, you get on the line quick

Say away from
1. Mesa - You sleep on the plane and get paid sh!t.
2. Go Jets - Everyone will hate you.. Everyone
3. TransState - Pay sucks and mangement sucks
4. Pinnacle - You can get paid more to fly a twin otter
5. Messaba - NWA B!tch right now
6. American Eagle - Unless you are single and dont mind going to PR in the ATR (could be a plus if you are into latin women)
7. Gulfstream - you pay to go to work..

Nickair777 is wrong about major hiring. There may actually be a shortage by 2011. So don't worry and get in as soon as you can. Good Luck!

I think the most important thing to look at is where you live (or where you want to live) and then look at who flies near there. Being home as much as possible is key to living a good life if you have a family. (Or if you have girlfriends that live there. haha)

Major Airline Pilot Shortage? Haven't we heard this one before??? ROTFLMAO

Let's see... last time it was retiring vietnam-era vets.

What is is this time? The unusually high number of major airline pilots being abducted by UFO's? I guess that is a risk up in the flight levels :rolleyes:

I am just curious, what do you mean when you say "fits your lifestyle"?

Mostly I mean by this where you live. If you live on the east coast for example, you might not really want to go to Skywest unless you are planning on moving.

Living in, or close to, where you work is HUGE for the quality of life crowd and commuting will be tough on anyone's lifestyle.

I went to Air Wisconsin because I am from Wisconsin and wanted to work in the Midwest. Now I am a bitter man.

So there.

That's all I mean by lifestyle. Nothing more sinister or kinky than that.

Thanks Saaab. Who do you work for now?


One other question, and please dont beat me up. I am NOT an airline pilot nor am I close to being one.

What exactly is wrong with Gojets? Why is everyone bashing them? Again, I know nothing about them. I never even heard of them before. But if so many people are bashing them, I am curious as to whats the deal?

look at usair and cal.......dinosaurs

I still work for Air Wisconsin.

Go Jets is despised because it was created as an 'alter ego' company to get around contract language, and to put pressure on labor, at Trans States Airlines. They are owned by the same owner and GJ is more or less a company within a company, used as leverage against existing contracts.

Not that I agree much with HMP but she's actually right and it is still the Vietnam era pilots. They make up over 30% of the industry and will be forced to retire my 2011. Yes, right now there isn't a shortage, but with commercial aviation training diminishing, military pilots are diminishing as well as choosing to make the military a career and with over 30% of the industry retiring by 2011 there probably will be a shortage. By 2011 most of the current regional pilots that want to and are qualified to move on will move on and that will leave the regionals fighting for pilots. And don't say they won't because they are now and it will be worse in 5 years.

Yes, there are a number of furloughed pilots (they will be recalled or go somewhere else) and major airline routes may reduce with the mergers and buyouts, but when you run the numbers all signs point to a bright future. The US Airline industry is current running at a record 83% capacity nation wide. That doesn’t leave much room for reduction!

There is some cause for optimisim, but I guess I'm cautious and don't want to get too excited. The not-so-optimistic view...

The high load factors don't help much in the long run if airlines are selling seats below cost, which they are in many cases. Selling seats below cost is a loss-reduction tactic, not a profit-making tactic. What has happened is we now have "customers" who are attracted by ludicrously low fares who would not or could not afford to pay a realistic fare to fly...they are only here to take advantage of a smokin' deal while it lasts.

What probably has to happen is consolidation of 4 -6 majors, which would reduce capacity and allow airlines to charge what their services are worth. The trailer-park crowd would probably not be able to afford to fly (except where SWA provides service).

If I'm wrong, we'll all be in great shape and the beer's on me :D

Rickair777,

Fares have gone way up in the past 18 months and most airlines are now posting profits, some of them even large profits. Don't let the airlines let you believe they aren't making money. They are.

For a second there I thought this was going to turn interesting...

-LAFF

I'm already having a good year...

ScabJet pilots are NOT our brothers.

You misread, I said that TSA pilots are our brothers. I also said that any pilots who get hired after the fact, even though they were not the orignal scabs that BlowJets (ScabJets, GoJets) started with will be view as being the same.

"Pilots will take it as though you don’t care about your brothers (TSA Pilots) and that you support BlowJets, NOT GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"

WTF?:eek: If our relationship with management is good, I would hate to see what it's like elsewhere. You are dead wrong on that one. Sorry.

So far so good for me.. Cant really complain much yet. Then again when i think about it i take that part of the statment back. We are never really in the loop.

It's hovering around the 24-30 month region. We just had one guy make it in 23 months.

On my last 4 day trip I flew with a former Horizon Dash 8 FO (spent 3 years with Horizon), she is now a CA at SKW. She told me something that I would like confirmation on, so this question is for Horizon pilots ONLY.

She said that if you're a 4th year Dash FO and want to become a CRJ FO, once you transition you will go back to first pay. Also, that you get paid based upon your seniority and not your a/c (at first it's your a/c then over time you get your seniority). So you can be a 6th year Dash FO making 6th year CRJ pay unless you transition then you go back to first year. Is this true? How about for upgrade?

At Horizon, FOs get paid based on the aircraft their seniority could hold. So a 6th year Dash FO makes 6th year CRJ FO pay. If you want to bid to another aircraft as an FO, you will go to the lowest payscale for two years, then back to the regualr pay system. The nice thing about this type of system from one perspective is you don't have to retrain on a new airplane, or maybe more importantly, not have to switch bases and commute, to get higher pay as an FO. However, for those in the Dash that have SJS, it sucks, but they should have known coming to Horizon that you would most likely fly props the whole time.

For Captains, you are paid based on what you fly.

It has nothing to do with being in the loop. It has everything to do with the way management blatantly ingnores the contract when it is not convenient for them, how they show no "heart" when it comes to anything that costs the company even one penny extra, even if it will mean a significant plus to the employee. They have taken morale at this company over the last 10 years and shoved it into the gutter, slowly but surely. The only thing that makes life at Horizon enjoyable is the other people that you work with day in and day out on the line.

Thank you for the clarification.