What Regional To Work For??
01-02-2007, 06:38 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
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What Regional To Work For??
I am looking to make the jump to the airlines. I live in GA. Have about 1300TT and 250 Multi. Looking for any REAL advice about what regional to work for. Whats better Jets or Props? Ultimatley would like to work for a major and want the quickest path to that goal. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
01-02-2007, 06:50 AM
#3
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by rubbersidedown
I am looking to make the jump to the airlines. I live in GA. Have about 1300TT and 250 Multi. Looking for any REAL advice about what regional to work for. Whats better Jets or Props? Ultimatley would like to work for a major and want the quickest path to that goal. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
01-02-2007, 06:52 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,750
If I had 20/20 hindsight I would have gone to Skywest.
In the end they are all about the same and you should go to the one which suits your lifestyle the best. In the end it is all about Quality Of Life (QOL) and not really about the money.
In the end they are all about the same and you should go to the one which suits your lifestyle the best. In the end it is all about Quality Of Life (QOL) and not really about the money.
01-02-2007, 07:11 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: EMB135BJ SIC
Posts: 205
Quickest would be a turbo-prop regional....Usually a faster upgrade. Pay is less however. Also make sure that the major you plan to go to accepts turbo-prop time....JetBlue does not accept below 21k lbs.
SKYW, CHQ/Shuttle/RAH, XJT are all fine places to go right now. Seem to be stable, good QOL/contracts, and reasonable upgrade time. You meet the mins for basically all regionals so apply and interview.
Another option would be 135 cargo. You meet 135 mins and could go fly more gaining PIC time versus SIC time. Find one with advancement to jet aircraft like a Lear or Falcon and you would be in good shape. Airnet you fly props for a year then move to the lear. They fly lots.
Good luck.
SKYW, CHQ/Shuttle/RAH, XJT are all fine places to go right now. Seem to be stable, good QOL/contracts, and reasonable upgrade time. You meet the mins for basically all regionals so apply and interview.
Another option would be 135 cargo. You meet 135 mins and could go fly more gaining PIC time versus SIC time. Find one with advancement to jet aircraft like a Lear or Falcon and you would be in good shape. Airnet you fly props for a year then move to the lear. They fly lots.
Good luck.
01-02-2007, 07:26 AM
#6
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
Here we go again...
This is how it used to be:
-Regionals (Commuters) operated turboprops.
-Almost all of them sucked.
-Pay was criminal.
-QOL was similar to a labor camp.
-1000+ Turbine PIC (in a turboprop) would get you a job at a major airline.
-Commuter pilots would do anything to get that PIC, and would cheerfully put up with all the crap that the entry-level could dish out..after all it was only for 2-3 years.
DANGER: You will get plenty of advise based on the way it used to be...
What changed:
- Regional jets were invented to replace turboprops.
- They were operated by commuters (regionals) using traditional regional pay and work rules (ie crap).
- If RJ's had stayed on the turboprop routes, that would have been OK.
- After 9/11, majors were looking to cut costs...they figured out that they could replace mainline aircraft with RJ's on lightly travelled routes.
- Because regional pilot labor costs are so low, this concept took off in a huge way. Literally thousands of RJ's went into service in a few years.
- Then RJ's grew to 50-70 seats, allowing majors to replace even more mainline aircraft (and pilots).
- End result: Thousands of good mainline jobs were deleted, and replaced with crappy regional jobs based on the the old commuter pay and benefits.
The way it is today:
- There are fewer major jobs and a lot more regional pilots competing for them.
- Realistic competive times are far higher than 1000 PIC for most people.
Two scenarios for you:
1) If you know someone (a pilot or executive) who is well placed at a major that is hiring, then all you need are the published mins for that airline, which might be 1000 turbine PIC or whatever. If this is the case, do whatever it takes to get the required time as quickly as possible (except gojets).
2) If you don't know someone then the reality of getting hired off the street by a major is harsh. You will need plenty of PIC time, but you will also need "whole person" factors to make you more interesting: Masters degree, played college ball, combat experience, published author, ranked amatuer athlete, etc. This situation could improve in the future, but right now you need to look for a regional where you would be happy hanging out for a while...say the next 35 years.
Things to consider:
-Pay: Most regional pay scales look similar, but the work rules that determine HOW the pay scales are applied mean EVERYTHING.
-QOL: If a regional has a one or more large bases in or near cities where you would like to live that is a huge plus.
- RJ's provide better schedules and quality of life than turboprops. Also the jet and glass cockpit time helps fill out your resume. It's OK to start in props, but consider carefully before going to work for a prop-only regional.
- Growth: A regional with known growth will provide faster improvement in QOL and faster upgrade.
- Problems: Some regionals have serious problems with their existing contracts...research these carefully so you know what you're getting into.
Decent Regionals:
Horizon
SkyWest
Air Wisconsin
Republic/Chataqua
OK Regionals with significant problems (which might be resolved soon)
ExpressJet
COMAIR
ASA
Pinnacle
Mesaba
Regionals with major problems which will never be resolved:
American Eagle (long upgrade time is the only real problem here)
Mesa/Freedom/Air Midwest (problems which are too numerous to list)
Go Jets (DO NOT WORK HERE)
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. I don't know enough about some of the smaller prop operators to comment.
This is how it used to be:
-Regionals (Commuters) operated turboprops.
-Almost all of them sucked.
-Pay was criminal.
-QOL was similar to a labor camp.
-1000+ Turbine PIC (in a turboprop) would get you a job at a major airline.
-Commuter pilots would do anything to get that PIC, and would cheerfully put up with all the crap that the entry-level could dish out..after all it was only for 2-3 years.
DANGER: You will get plenty of advise based on the way it used to be...
What changed:
- Regional jets were invented to replace turboprops.
- They were operated by commuters (regionals) using traditional regional pay and work rules (ie crap).
- If RJ's had stayed on the turboprop routes, that would have been OK.
- After 9/11, majors were looking to cut costs...they figured out that they could replace mainline aircraft with RJ's on lightly travelled routes.
- Because regional pilot labor costs are so low, this concept took off in a huge way. Literally thousands of RJ's went into service in a few years.
- Then RJ's grew to 50-70 seats, allowing majors to replace even more mainline aircraft (and pilots).
- End result: Thousands of good mainline jobs were deleted, and replaced with crappy regional jobs based on the the old commuter pay and benefits.
The way it is today:
- There are fewer major jobs and a lot more regional pilots competing for them.
- Realistic competive times are far higher than 1000 PIC for most people.
Two scenarios for you:
1) If you know someone (a pilot or executive) who is well placed at a major that is hiring, then all you need are the published mins for that airline, which might be 1000 turbine PIC or whatever. If this is the case, do whatever it takes to get the required time as quickly as possible (except gojets).
2) If you don't know someone then the reality of getting hired off the street by a major is harsh. You will need plenty of PIC time, but you will also need "whole person" factors to make you more interesting: Masters degree, played college ball, combat experience, published author, ranked amatuer athlete, etc. This situation could improve in the future, but right now you need to look for a regional where you would be happy hanging out for a while...say the next 35 years.
Things to consider:
-Pay: Most regional pay scales look similar, but the work rules that determine HOW the pay scales are applied mean EVERYTHING.
-QOL: If a regional has a one or more large bases in or near cities where you would like to live that is a huge plus.
- RJ's provide better schedules and quality of life than turboprops. Also the jet and glass cockpit time helps fill out your resume. It's OK to start in props, but consider carefully before going to work for a prop-only regional.
- Growth: A regional with known growth will provide faster improvement in QOL and faster upgrade.
- Problems: Some regionals have serious problems with their existing contracts...research these carefully so you know what you're getting into.
Decent Regionals:
Horizon
SkyWest
Air Wisconsin
Republic/Chataqua
OK Regionals with significant problems (which might be resolved soon)
ExpressJet
COMAIR
ASA
Pinnacle
Mesaba
Regionals with major problems which will never be resolved:
American Eagle (long upgrade time is the only real problem here)
Mesa/Freedom/Air Midwest (problems which are too numerous to list)
Go Jets (DO NOT WORK HERE)
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. I don't know enough about some of the smaller prop operators to comment.
01-02-2007, 07:52 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Former EMB 120 Jr. Water Boy, CRJ newbee
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Here we go again...
This is how it used to be:
-Regionals (Commuters) operated turboprops.
-Almost all of them sucked.
-Pay was criminal.
-QOL was similar to a labor camp.
-1000+ Turbine PIC (in a turboprop) would get you a job at a major airline.
-Commuter pilots would do anything to get that PIC, and would cheerfully put up with all the crap that the entry-level could dish out..after all it was only for 2-3 years.
DANGER: You will get plenty of advise based on the way it used to be...
Decent Regionals:
Horizon
SkyWest
Air Wisconsin
Republic/Chataqua
OK Regionals with significant problems (which might be resolved soon)
ExpressJet
COMAIR
ASA
Pinnacle
Mesaba
Regionals with major problems which will never be resolved:
American Eagle (long upgrade time is the only real problem here)
Mesa/Freedom/Air Midwest (problems which are too numerous to list)
Go Jets (DO NOT WORK HERE)
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. I don't know enough about some of the smaller prop operators to comment.
This is how it used to be:
-Regionals (Commuters) operated turboprops.
-Almost all of them sucked.
-Pay was criminal.
-QOL was similar to a labor camp.
-1000+ Turbine PIC (in a turboprop) would get you a job at a major airline.
-Commuter pilots would do anything to get that PIC, and would cheerfully put up with all the crap that the entry-level could dish out..after all it was only for 2-3 years.
DANGER: You will get plenty of advise based on the way it used to be...
Decent Regionals:
Horizon
SkyWest
Air Wisconsin
Republic/Chataqua
OK Regionals with significant problems (which might be resolved soon)
ExpressJet
COMAIR
ASA
Pinnacle
Mesaba
Regionals with major problems which will never be resolved:
American Eagle (long upgrade time is the only real problem here)
Mesa/Freedom/Air Midwest (problems which are too numerous to list)
Go Jets (DO NOT WORK HERE)
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. I don't know enough about some of the smaller prop operators to comment.
01-02-2007, 07:59 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Airplane Driver
Posts: 62
Hey, thanks guys. This is what I need. Something to weed out the airlines I should not work for and highlight the ones I should. I have friends that work for a lot of the regionals, commut, pinnacle, xjt. ASA is really starting to hire and it looks pretty appealing being in my home state. Should I start out as a jet pilot though? How long can I expect before I start getting PIC time again?
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