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XJT Pilot 08-03-2014 02:50 AM

Going to Jail threats
 
Guys! You are not going to jail, for not doing something. An illegal job action was also taken in the 80's e.g. PATCO not one went to jail. Look, i'm not encouraging anything here but stop with the jail threats its BS. Sorry Super Moderator! I know you can be held liable for any such talk of anarchy about this industry, but you have no proof that the government has the ability to jail anyone for standing up for their rights or beliefs. Its you opinion and you entitled to it. But your wrong!

Again, nobody will ever go to jail for not doing something they don't want to do!

Kick me off admonish me IDK, but your no better then the guys spreading rumors of this crap!

DirkDiggler 08-03-2014 03:11 AM

You cannot go to jail for violating the RLA as an employee. It is a civil matter and a civil statute. Only a carrier and its agents can be prosecuted criminally. United States v. Jerry Winston, he operated a small regional air service in the 70's.

Even then the US Attorney's office states prosecuting an air carrier is an unreasonable burden on the justice system in their own manual! Unfortunately going to jail has just become folklore accepted as fact by ignorant pilots.

Courts can and will issue an injunction to return to work, and a violation of an injunction is contempt of court. Found in contempt and you can get jail time, but that's it! I say, "good luck with that, we're all in contempt, oh well."

wmupilot85 08-03-2014 03:35 AM


Originally Posted by XJT Pilot (Post 1698177)
Guys! You are not going to jail, for not doing something. An illegal job action was also taken in the 80's e.g. PATCO not one went to jail. Look, i'm not encouraging anything here but stop with the jail threats its BS. Sorry Super Moderator! I know you can be held liable for any such talk of anarchy about this industry, but you have no proof that the government has the ability to jail anyone for standing up for their rights or beliefs. Its you opinion and you entitled to it. But your wrong!

Again, nobody will ever go to jail for not doing something they don't want to do!

Kick me off admonish me IDK, but your no better then the guys spreading rumors of this crap!


Don't forget that the carrier can sue ALPA (or your union) for illegal job actions also. Just like what happened to AA/Reno and APA, where they found there was an illegal job action and APA paid out about half to AA, and the other half was achieved through concessions in their contract. Total loss was $45.6 million.

DirkDiggler 08-03-2014 03:39 AM

Exactly, being a civil statute the only purpose is to sue for monetary damages.

sailingfun 08-03-2014 03:50 AM


Originally Posted by wmupilot85 (Post 1698186)
Don't forget that the carrier can sue ALPA (or your union) for illegal job actions also. Just like what happened to AA/Reno and APA, where they found there was an illegal job action and APA paid out about half to AA, and the other half was achieved through concessions in their contract. Total loss was $45.6 million.

Delta sued 49 pilots for 1 million each for encouraging a illegal job action. ( no overtime)
You can also go to jail on a civil matter if a judge issues a injunction and it is not complied with.
Here is a nice summary of how devastating the PATCO strike was to organized labor.

Yet three decades later, with the economy shrinking or stagnant for nearly four years now and Reagan’s party moving even further to the right than where he stood, the long-term costs of his destruction of the union loom ever larger. It is clear now that the fallout from the strike has hurt workers and distorted our politics in ways Reagan himself did not advocate.

Although a conservative, Reagan often argued that private sector workers’ rights to organize were fundamental in a democracy. He not only made this point when supporting Lech Walesa’s anti-Communist Solidarity movement in Poland; he also boasted of being the first president of the Screen Actors Guild to lead that union in a strike. Over time, however, his crushing of the controllers’ walkout — which he believed was justified because federal workers were not allowed under the law to strike — has helped undermine the private-sector rights he once defended.

Workers in the private sector had used the strike as a tool of leverage in labor-management conflicts between World War II and 1981, repeatedly withholding their work to win fairer treatment from recalcitrant employers. But after Patco, that weapon was largely lost. Reagan’s unprecedented dismissal of skilled strikers encouraged private employers to do likewise. Phelps Dodge and International Paper were among the companies that imitated Reagan by replacing strikers rather than negotiating with them. Many other employers followed suit.

By 2010, the number of workers participating in walkouts was less than 2 percent of what it had been when Reagan led the actors’ strike in 1952. Lacking the leverage that strikes once provided, unions have been unable to pressure employers to increase wages as productivity rises. Inequality has ballooned to a level not seen since Reagan’s boyhood in the 1920s.

Although he opposed government strikes, Reagan supported government workers’ efforts to unionize and bargain collectively. As governor, he extended such rights in California. As president he was prepared to do the same. Not only did he court and win Patco’s endorsement during his 1980 campaign, he directed his negotiators to go beyond his legal authority to offer controllers a pay raise before their strike — the first time a president had ever offered so much to a federal employees’ union.

But the impact of the Patco strike on Reagan’s fellow Republicans has long since overshadowed his own professed beliefs regarding public sector unions. Over time the rightward-shifting Republican Party has come to view Reagan’s mass firings not as a focused effort to stop one union from breaking the law — as Reagan portrayed it — but rather as a blow against public sector unionism itself.

copycopy 08-03-2014 03:57 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1698191)
Delta sued 49 pilots for 1 million each for encouraging a illegal job action. ( no overtime)

Might make sense for Delta to sue their pilots for that much seeing as how they might get something. Sueing regional FOs? Barking up the wrong tree haha.

wmupilot85 08-03-2014 03:59 AM


Originally Posted by copycopy (Post 1698193)
Might make sense for Delta to sue their pilots for that much seeing as how they might get something. Sueing regional FOs? Barking up the wrong tree haha.

As I said, they can take from the ALPA general fund for the union, and then the rest can be taken through concessions.

There is a way to go about doing something. Want to do it? Do it legally.

BlueMoon 08-03-2014 05:08 AM


Originally Posted by copycopy (Post 1698193)
Might make sense for Delta to sue their pilots for that much seeing as how they might get something. Sueing regional FOs? Barking up the wrong tree haha.

Get sued for an illegal job action and see if you ever get a decent job doing anything again.

copycopy 08-03-2014 06:16 AM


Originally Posted by BlueMoon (Post 1698218)
Get sued for an illegal job action and see if you ever get a decent job doing anything again.

I'm not planning on doing anything illegal, I was just laughing at the thought of suing a regional FO for a $1,000,000.

GlobeTreker 08-03-2014 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by BlueMoon (Post 1698218)
Get sued for an illegal job action and see if you ever get a decent job doing anything again.

If ALPA superstar poster boy Timmy M can become gainfully employed again after his shenanigans, I'm pretty sure anybody could.

Sue an RJ FO for $1,000,000? Might as well make it a billion. You can sue people for however much you want. Just because you win doesn't mean you'll ever see a penny. Reference the civil suite won by Nicole Simpsons' family vs OJ Simpson. They won a 33.5 million dollar settlement. I am not sure they have ever seen a penny of that money yet.


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