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Mason32 Says: No ATP Writtens Since August 1
Well he quoted an article on another message board using a different screen name, but it's worth noting.
Guest Blog: ATP Tests Grind to a Halt - AVweb Insider Article Based on my data sources, since August 1, 2014, we have not administered a single ATP knowledge test that would allow a pilot to then go on to take the ATP multi-engine practical test and become ATP qualified for service in an airline. Yup. None. For two whole months and I expect this trend to continue for a third month. This is a significant change from historic numbers when we typically saw an average of over 500 knowledge tests given per month (between 2002 and 2013). Why is this important? Because it is not possible to become an ATP pilot without first taking the knowledge test. If we aren't making new ATP pilots, well, then we simply aren't making any more pilots capable of being employed to fly airliners. |
Anyone who might've gotten an airline job in the next two years should've gotten it done. Anyone who didn't; too bad so sad. But anyone more than two years away, I feel bad for them.
Realistically, the regionals will have to institute some sort of program, though that additional expense may push the regional house of cards even further towards collapse. |
That all makes sense considering that there haven't been any school until recently that were able to administer the ground school and sim requirement. ERAU was the first but that required being enrolled in the actual school not just a one off class, IIRC ATP or some other schools first class started this month. I would also assume that considering the average was 500/month it wouldn't surprise me if the months leading up to August was about 2000/month.
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Originally Posted by aTomatoFlames
(Post 1746299)
That all makes sense considering that there haven't been any school until recently that were able to administer the ground school and sim requirement. ERAU was the first but that required being enrolled in the actual school not just a one off class, IIRC ATP or some other schools first class started this month. I would also assume that considering the average was 500/month it wouldn't surprise me if the months leading up to August was about 2000/month.
The only company certified as of today is Sportys. ERAU has one but only as part of the curriculum. Sportys uses a DC9 sim. ATP is still doing the certification process to my knowledge, but will likely have that approval soon. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Why bother any more, just aint worth it.
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Anybody seen independent verification of the author's claims?
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$4500 to take the course which allows you to take the test. Outrageous! It cost me about $225 and that includes the Sheppard Air test prep software.
Sporty?s Offers FAA-Approved ATP Certification Training Program - Media Center - Sporty's Pilot Shop | Media Center ? Sporty's Pilot Shop |
Could someone provide insight on the primary differences between a Level-C and D sim? thanks
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Probably a lot of guys will go to the no-training-contract commuters to get their ATP and bail. That sucks for them!! Haha. This is great, I highly doubt Congress will reduce requirements, otherwise if something happens it's completely on their heads. Nope.
This is great, anything that reduces the ability for pilots to get minted is a good thing, long term, for our profession. |
Originally Posted by gold
(Post 1746380)
Could someone provide insight on the primary differences between a Level-C and D sim? thanks
Level D has 150 degree field of view, also realistic sound effects and some added visual effects. |
Originally Posted by gold
(Post 1746380)
Could someone provide insight on the primary differences between a Level-C and D sim? thanks
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Originally Posted by gold
(Post 1746380)
Could someone provide insight on the primary differences between a Level-C and D sim? thanks
ABCs of Simulators - AOPA |
Originally Posted by gold
(Post 1746380)
Could someone provide insight on the primary differences between a Level-C and D sim? thanks
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Curious on what else Mason has to say.
Good luck guys. |
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 1746407)
Probably a lot of guys will go o the no-training-contract commuters to get their ATP and bail. That sucks for them!! Haha. This is great, I highly doubt Congress will reduce requirements, otherwise if something happens it's completely on their heads. Nope.
This is great, anything that reduces the ability for pilots to get minted is a good thing, long term, for our profession. |
For a complete understanding of FSTD's (Flight Simulation/Training Devices, including Level A-D Full Flight Simulators) please see AC 120-40 and 14 CFR Part 60.
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Originally Posted by gold
(Post 1746380)
Could someone provide insight on the primary differences between a Level-C and D sim? thanks
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Anyone have a list of airlines currently offering this course?
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None. Really with all the folks who took the test pre August it'll take the airlines a while to work through the pool.
The blog says there were normally 500 ATP writtens a month. I'll bet that number was doubled over the summer so the total number for the year should be close. Real problem will start in a year. |
That ABX DC9 sim was built new in the early 2000s. My understanding at the time was that it was capable of being Level D certified but they only certified it as Level C for their program. The visuals are the continuous wrap-around type and it does full daytime. Much better visuals than the 767 sim in the next bay and a fast improvement over the Level B DC9 sim that it replaced. First time I got in that sim I was able to fly a visual traffic pattern with very little reference to the instruments.
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Here is a link that has the latest schools that are authorized to provide the ATP CTP:
Pilot Training ? ATP Certificate Looks like Aerosim Training Solutions is now added in addition to ERAU and ABX. |
I fully believe there won't be more than 100 ATP written tests done this year.
Who in their right mind is going to fork over 4500 for a damn written |
Interesting things start to happen May through August 2016 if this keeps up.
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Originally Posted by Salukipilot4590
(Post 1746777)
I fully believe there won't be more than 100 ATP written tests done this year.
Who in their right mind is going to fork over 4500 for a damn written |
Originally Posted by deltajuliet
(Post 1746298)
may push the regional house of cards even further towards collapse.
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Originally Posted by meeko031
(Post 1746807)
...doubtful, as there will be a surplus of pilots when eagle closes its door this coming summer!!!
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I was unable to take the written before the deadline because I wasn't 21 at the time. I currently fly 135 freight with a HORRIBLE QOL. I'd like to work my way to a regional within a month or two. I'm lucky enough to be debt free, and I was able to save enough to pay for the course. Should I just fork over the $4500....I can't fly cargo for another year in hopes that a airline will get a course going
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Originally Posted by pete2800
(Post 1746824)
That capacity would still have to be filled by someone else.
Badabing |
Originally Posted by Ekpt40
(Post 1746879)
Three fifty seaters replaced by one 737.
Badabing |
Originally Posted by Ekpt40
(Post 1746879)
Three fifty seaters replaced by one 737.
Badabing |
Assuming the data point is correct:
How many got the written done before the deadline? Are we just looking at a temporary drop? How many are just waiting for more programs to open up? How many applications are in the pipeline? I was under the impression that a regional airline training program counts as an approved program. If so, most will just go to the regional class and the written test will become part of the program. |
Originally Posted by jonnyjetprop
(Post 1747089)
Assuming the data point is correct:
How many got the written done before the deadline? Are we just looking at a temporary drop? How many are just waiting for more programs to open up? How many applications are in the pipeline? I was under the impression that a regional airline training program counts as an approved program. If so, most will just go to the regional class and the written test will become part of the program. curriculum. |
The newbies have it figured out---
1 Attachment(s)
It's a trap!!!
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Originally Posted by Beech90
(Post 1746846)
I was unable to take the written before the deadline because I wasn't 21 at the time. I currently fly 135 freight with a HORRIBLE QOL. I'd like to work my way to a regional within a month or two. I'm lucky enough to be debt free, and I was able to save enough to pay for the course. Should I just fork over the $4500....I can't fly cargo for another year in hopes that a airline will get a course going
The good news is that though it's not what you wanted, by the time you reach the magic age of 23 there may indeed be a variety of airlines that have a program that will qualify you to take the written without having to pay the $4500. |
Originally Posted by YAKflyer
(Post 1747158)
Beech90....I hope you are able to find a job with acceptable QOL. You have an additional problem for the time being....you are too young to be hired even if you had the written passed. Unfortunately, to be in either seat, you have to have be type rated and have your ATP. You are to young to hold the ATP.
The good news is that though it's not what you wanted, by the time you reach the magic age of 23 there may indeed be a variety of airlines that have a program that will qualify you to take the written without having to pay the $4500. Thanks for the response, however I qualify for a R-ATP. The FAA changed the rules for first officers - announcing new requirements on July 10, 2013. In short, on August 1, 2013, the FAA requires SIC's to hold an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate (ATP), but the certificate may have restricted privileges. An ATP with restricted privileges requires you to: Be 21 years old Hold a Commercial Pilot Certificate with an Instrument Rating Complete an Airline Transport Pilot Certification Training Program (ATP CTP) Pass the ATP knowledge and practical test And meet the flight time requirements of FAR 61.160 - roughly 1,500 hours Before this change, SIC's only needed a Commercial Pilot Certificate - roughly 250 hours of flight time - so this is a big change. However, the FAA recognizes that great training can make up for some raw experience. They've made exceptions for pilots coming through certain training programs, allowing them to earn an ATP with restricted privileges in less time. The exceptions are: Military pilots need only 750 hours total flight time and 200 hours cross-country time Graduates from approved four-year universities with a Bachelor's degree and an aviation major need only 1000 hours total flight time and 200 hours cross-country time if they: Complete at least 60 credit hours of aviation related coursework, and Hold a Commercial Pilot Certificate that was earned through the university's part 141 training program If they complete less than 60 credit hours, but at least 30 credit hours, they need 1250 hours total flight time and 200 hours cross-country time Graduates from approved two-year colleges with an Associate's degree and an aviation major need only 1250 hours total flight time and 200 hours cross-country time if they: Complete at least 30 credit hours of aviation related coursework, and Hold a Commercial Pilot Certificate that was earned through the school's part 141 training program. Other pilots need 1500 hours total time and 200 hours cross-country time |
Originally Posted by pete2800
(Post 1747005)
Nope. When it comes to flight marketing and sales, frequency is king.
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Originally Posted by embraer
(Post 1747231)
Nope. That is true if only one airline is reducing frequencies. When all the big 3 airlines are reducing frequencies by replacing 5 RJs with one 737 it's a wash. There consumer has no other competitor to run to and simply has to adjust.
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Originally Posted by Westerner
(Post 1747116)
From my understanding it has to be done before prior to beginning 121 training. That is why no quick solution of just adding it to the
curriculum. |
Originally Posted by bruhaha
(Post 1746459)
Level-C means you'll have to go fly the real thing to get your landings. Level-D all the landings can be done in the simulator.
Originally Posted by Westerner
(Post 1747116)
From my understanding it has to be done before prior to beginning 121 training. That is why no quick solution of just adding it to the curriculum.
Woah that was quick. |
Originally Posted by aviatorhi
(Post 1747260)
So you add a course prior to Indoc training which gets everybody their written.
Woah that was quick. |
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