Obviously you do care about performance because that's the first thing everyone rags on TSA about. It's called controllable completion dumb a**, and what we cannot control does not count. You guys can all laugh at us and rip on us all you want, we really don't care. Life's been good over here and it's going to get better, fuc*ing deal with it.

The regional model has shifted again, and this time it's been in TSA's favor. For the last damn time....IT IS NOT A WHIPSAW!! No one came to us with a concessionary contract, in fact we have been steadily improving our contract and we will do so again this spring.

You and hou757 and all the others can try and deter people away via the interwebzzzzz, but you forget...no one cares. Half the pilots out there don't even know these sites exist. But please, do continue to be Richards..it's entertaining and gives me something to do on overnights.

So you're telling me that a first year captain only makes $26 an hour! What a bunch of scabs!

Wait, you have to sell your soul and get 5 days off a month at TSA. You would be a scab at a whipsaw and get black listed if you even filled out an application at TSA.

I am going to stay at my airline that is better than TSA in every measurable way. I feel so much superior as an eternal FO at my current airline. Did I mention we have flow through? Mainline should call me any day.

I just feel better... For no other reason.. Haters go away..

I think you need to look at the stats again. XJT is not at the bottom. Attachment 1733

Dolla dolla bill y'all! Surprised TSA meets that controllable completion since UNITED cancelled all those flights last week. *Thick layer of sarcasm*

People who go to TSA for this CQFO are very bad at math.

Care to show your work?

This is the very beginnings of flattened pay scales at regional airlines.

Uhh, dude. Controllable completion is completely independent of anything United cancels. Hence the word controllable. Difficult concept, I know.

APC is showing 370 pilots on property. Old info but good baseline since that was the number before this charade started.

If they just double in size they would need to hire 370 in 9 months just to have everyone currently on property upgrade. No new hires would upgrade.

If their end game was 900 pilots they would need to hire 530 pilots for the just the first 80 new hires to upgrade. You are looking at needing 1000 pilots hired in the next 9 months to for this magical 9 month upgrade everyone believes they will get and yeah they still dont understand there needs to be hundreds and hundreds of FO's who wont see upgrade for several years. Who's going to want to do that?

As a new hire to the industry you stand to make almost 90 grand in 2 years at endeavor. Where are you going to get these new FOs once all the jumpers from prior regionals stop going there? If you don't get one of the few CQFO slots it doesn't make much sense to go there and even then, there's no guarantee you'll see left seat if they can't staff. You need so many guys willing to come in behind you.

Please read my post again before I call you a moron. Focus on the part in asterisks that says "SARCASM". If you really want to humor yourself, go back a few pages and find my post where I specifically laid out what controllable completion means. It's people like you that drive me to pounding a handle of No. 7 at 2 in the afternoon.

The doubling/tripling in size takes place through first quarter 2016. We don't need to hire 1000 people in 9 months. How stupid are some of you guys? Endeavor vs TSA right now and you say Endeavor? I should just stop right there.... Does mommy still breast feed too? Let mommy change your diaper, and then go play with the other kids..run along now.

People who say it's a scam or a bad deal should take a cognitive exam and then go see a head doctor.... Lemme rephrase, if you are an FO at your current gig and like it there and want to stay there and chuck gear until the legacies call, then yes it's a terrible deal. But despite everyone saying PIC doesn't matter anymore, how many people without it have been hired that aren't extremely well connected? If you think that is you, then see my first sentence again.

aag hired gun.

Papamike gives solid logical numbers and you throw poo at him in response. He is right: chasing a quick upgrade at TSA is extremely risky and the numbers don't support a move. A lateral mover would be better off at a place with a solid contract, like Air Whiskey, Compass, or Skywest. Hoping for a quick upgrade at one of the industries notorious bottom feeders just doesn't seem like a smart move.

Technically, the Compass contract is nearly identical to the TSA one...and that includes nearly identical pay to fly 30 more people.

Yet interestingly enough people still are flocking to PSA, even though they have 1000 pilots and need only 14-1500. The quick upgrade has sailed there as well yet people still apply. The numbers support the move for the first people on, much like at compass or psa. Then afterwards you have to look at a lot of factors. Even if you do miss the quick upgrade, it's hard to argue with a place like PSA or TSA if you can be a senior FO fairly quickly. Is it better to sit reserve at a place like endeavor or envoy? That's up to you

So we have gone from trying to sell people here on a quick upgrade to "well at least you'll be a senior FO if you get in soon!".
Why don't you and your buddies try the truth approach: "We are in a position to benefit most from this if we peddle some lies and screw over a few people. We are so blinded by personal ambition that we cannot even see it".

PSA is going to be in trouble pretty quick. The lateral moves will slow drastically soon.

How can you say the numbers don't support a move? If you are slinging gear at Republic or Envoy and aren't going to upgrade in the next year, please do tell how it's a bad move? Anyone on property that has the time will upgrade in a max of 12 months. Anyone that comes in between now and early spring will upgrade before the final bird shows up. If you are CQFO qualified, you will hold solely a captain spot well before that due to guys that don't have the time yet.

Guys that come in say January - March with 1500 total will be a 15-18 month upgrade as long as they work hard. Attrition will help those guys and for the majority of their time here prior to upgrade hey will be senior FO's.

TSA staffs at 5.5-6 crews per airplane. So let's just lay this out in simple terms for master math guy up there. 10 people/airplane (5 captains and 5 FO's) x 50 aircraft approximately equals 500. We need to hire 500 people over the next 15-18 months. Not 1000. No one said a CFI that gets hired in January will upgrade in 9 months. Someone coming in that's close to the time anywhere between now and most likely summer will upgrade in less than 12 months.

So I apologize for "pooing", but his statement was sh*t to begin with.

Yeah, how dare those people take advantage of a situation that can only benefit them as long as they bet in before the lock!? Those selfish tools! They should get in line behind me because I deserve to go to a major first. I paid my dues!

Ya totally. Parker and I have drinks every monday.

Where have you seen anyone say anything about a 1500 hr CFI seeing a 9 month upgrade. For the last time interwebzzzzz, people with the time most certainly will see a 9 month upgrade.

Still laughing about the Endeavor comment....doesn't the company still have to exist for this "retention bonus?" Go to Endeavor, and we will talk in a year.

I'm not sure I follow your math. A pilot hired at TSA with 1500 hours would need 3,000 TT for upgrade, correct? Assuming 3 months for training (I got the 3 months from the airline apps CQFO email) this pilot would have to fly 125 hours per month to uprgade in 15 months (illegal). To see an 18 month upgrade this pilot would have to average 100 hours per month, which would be theoretically possible but highly improbable.

I'd imagine he is assuming the company lowers the mins to 2500TT and 1000 SIC

what is you come with 3000 total time.

You will upgrade the day you hit 3500. I should rephrase, I forgot to add in training. I will upgrade 18 months after finishing OE, because 117 sucks. For guys coming in with more than ATP minimums it will be less.

If they have 370 line pilots and you are hired today with 500 people hired after you in a matter of a year you WILL be a captain regardless of CQFO status. But its the people hired say next Summer as CQFOs that will be interesting. What their full time captain upgrade will be is a little unclear. I have been offered a class date at TSA as well but not as a CQFO since I am at 3200TT right now. But what they said in the interview was that essentially I would upgrade to permanent captain as soon as I had the time. But since they give you a 1 for 1 credit i would only have to fly 150 hours to be upgrade eligible. So in that scenario if I take a class in two weeks i would most likely be a captain by next Summer. I'm just hoping that I'm understanding all of that correctly since I would be hired as a new FO and not a CQFO

Correct. We will have upgraded everyone with the TT, on property, by April next year. Granted there will be a few that continue to get the time as time goes on. But just think about that for a second..

You guys will be flying planes that have 10+ years of my ash sweat caked into the seats! Go ahead, eat that M&M off the floor. Enjoy your "new" planes.

Butt hurt much?

Hemroids suck, but they add to the flavor!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Classy! Welcome to the forums!

So we go from saying 9-11("less than a year") in earlier posts and many are still quoting these numbers. If you have approx 400 on property and are gaining 50 planes at 5 crews each(your numbers) that is an extra 1000 pilots. 1500 total. Leaves 750 FOs.

With no attrition off the top guaranteed every year, that leaves a loooong wait for anyone who missed that very small window. That window might close up when you guys can't get new hires to get in there. Only a small amount of guys will get CQFO pay, but new hires with 1500 stand to make a lot more money initially at Endeavor. Simple math. Plus there is a guaranteed 144+ off the top. Endeavor is nearly at their staffing level for their final number and as i said, it's roughly 90 grand over two years for a new hire coming now. Would you rather sit 2 years making 90 at Endeavor or 56 at TSA??

TSA/PSA is in for a world of hurt if they can't get guys in the door after the next couple months. Going now is a complete gamble on them hiring nearly 1000 guys behind you and continue hiring into the future at any substantial pace to continue upgrades.

ARE. YOU. RETARDED?!

I'm gonna break this down 3rd grade style so there's absolutely no way anyone, EVEN YOU, can misunderstand it.

50 airplanes. That's half of 100. More than 49. Less than 51.

5 crews per airplane. 1 captain, 1 FO = 1 crew = 2 pilots.

2 pilots per crew. 5 crews per airplane. 5 x 2 = (drumroll) 10 pilots.

10 pilots per airplane. 50 airplanes. 50 x 10 (pat me on the back, this took a mathematician to figure out) = 500 pilots.

500 pilots. Not 1000. Not 2. Almost right in between that. 500. Yep. You're reading it correctly. Don't second guess yourself. It's still 500.

Tutoring sessions are available upon request. How bad does your head hurt trying to fly RNAVs into IAD and IAH without VNAV and A/T? We'll cover how to tackle that man made mountain of a problem in next week's lesson.

We used to take guys like you out back and beat you with a hose. Now you've got your damn unions.

For breakfast or brunch?

Why would anyone go to Endeavor when they are continuing to down grade guys? I know recently downgraded captains at Endeavor that are contemplating the switch to Trans States. Endeavor has no future at present and the money they are offering is eerily similar to the retention bonuses that Comair gave out. No one wants to be in the same position that Comair was.

Also, why would there be zero attrition? Anticipating a modest attrition of 20 pilots/month when mean somebody hired once TSA is completely staffed (900 Total Pilots on the list) would still see an upgrade in 23 months. Math isn't that hard.

LOL! Endeavor..... I'm not even goin to do the math for you. I'm tired, it's already been done. I'm just starting to think the overwhelming number of RJ pilots are just flat out retarded. Between trying to jumpseat in jeans, wearing crocs, dickies pants, and oakleys I've lost all faith in RJ pilots. And now you are trying to say go to Endeavor over TSA, run along..

LOL! quoting numbers that miss a WHOLE lot of information.

How do you expect those 500 new pilots to all get this magical upgrade u discuss??? OOOHHHH!! That's right! You will need 450 guys behind them to get hired. DING DING DING we have a winner! So the 500 for the new aircraft + 450 for those to upgrade to keep the gravy train moving = ?????

Idk, im told i'm not good at math, can you answer this for me, god of the calculator?

Everyone at TSA is selling this as "come here and upgrade within a year guaranteed". Do some serious thinking about this. Even if you are one of the first to go, you still need the guys behind you to follow.

Eventually you will stop getting prior 121 to make the jump. If you are a new hire, as i have said several times already, it makes a lot more sense to go to Endeavor than TSA. You wont upgrade there for awhile and you will make more than 30 grand extra at Endeavor.

Even if you could maintain 20 a month, Endeavor will have more and therefor a quicker long-term path to the left seat especially for the newbs to the industry. That's where the long-term movement will stem, new faces. At Endeavor net downgrades have stopped, attrition has slowed to a halt, other people are actually intelligent and coming here. It's been a rough couple years but times are a changin'.