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Express I (pre-Pinnacle) had it pretty good when we were owned by NWA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnCenterline (Post 1778197)

There was no "grab." In fact, the DAL MEC was not all that interested in merger talks.

This is a much more accurate summation. Yes, a few of the most senior guys wanted DOH, but of that small number, even fewer actually thought it was possible. The other 99+% knew that the combined ASA/CMR list (the merger of that particular list had been agreed upon a few years prior in anticipation of something like this) would be arbitrated, and likely wind up as a staple of some sort.

Make no mistake: ALPA did NOT want a merger of any regional list into mainline. They fought the very concept kicking and screaming, and this was the genesis of the RJDC, which is still something that most pilots--and almost all Delta pilots--don't understand. This was a DFR issue, plain and simple, and ALPA got very creative in their arguments against it.

Just for the record, it happened to be Comair and ASA because they were the first large RJ operators to be purchased by a company with the same union on property. Had it been USAir buying Mesa or United buying ACA, chances are it would have all played out the same way.

Had this issue been properly addressed in the early 2000's, the landscape would be drastically different: pay across the board would be higher, RJ's would still exist, but mainline pilots would be flying them, there would have been a faster reduction of the 50 seat fleet, and there would be far more E-170/190 variants flying.

You don't seem to understand that ALPA or any unions do not decide on mergers and have no power to force them. Those are management functions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1778209)

I think you are forgetting what Comair was before Delta opened the CVG hub. You also don't seem to understand stock splits. A split would not make it cheaper for Delta to purchase Comair.

I'm not forgetting anything. Yes, Delta and Comair built CVG together, but by 2000, the Comair operation was the larger of the two, and the customer base was built. Had they fought it out, it would have been ugly.

As for stock splits, I do understand them, and I also know the Comair history. The fiscal year was April to April. The stock would start the fiscal year at around $12-15 a share, then rise throughout the year to $35-40. At the following shareholders meeting, a split would occur, and the cycle would repeat itself.

Delta owned 20% the company (purchased when the company went public). When the bought Comair, they simply used Comair's cash reserves to pay for the purchase. It didn't cost Delta a nickel of their own money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1778211)

You don't seem to understand that ALPA or any unions do not decide on mergers and have no power to force them. Those are management functions.

Really? Then why does your scope language REQUIRE merging of lists if a company is bought that operates "other than permitted aircraft"? According to what you just said, ALPA can't force them?

ALPA might as well be management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1778211)

You don't seem to understand that ALPA or any unions do not decide on mergers and have no power to force them. Those are management functions.

Generally, it's true that mergers are management decisions, but ALPA DID have the leverage to force a merger in this case, because the DAL pilots were negotiating a new contract in 2000. If they had wanted to force the merger in exchange for scope relief, they could have. Instead, the negotiated scope relief in exchange for pay raises, which ALPA tends to do with alarming regularity.

They gave up 50% of those new wages in Chapter 11 and Delta bought hundreds of RJs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnCenterline (Post 1778216)

Delta and Comair built CVG together, but by 2000, the Comair operation was the larger of the two

Hence the joke at the time, "DAL exists in CVG to feed COMAIR".

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1778217)

Really? Then why does your scope language REQUIRE merging of lists if a company is bought that operates "other than permitted aircraft"? According to what you just said, ALPA can't force them?

If management agrees in contract negotiations and you have that in your contract you can force the issue. delta management was never going to agree to such a clause in our contract and no such clause existed.
Delta management could have merged ASA and Comair any time they wanted without DALPA having any say in the matter. They were however never going to do that for reasons almost to numerous to list. In most cases managements at other airlines have reached the same conclusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1778227)

Then it really didn't matter that there wasn't a "pre-nup" stating that we would accept a staple. As you stated, DALPA's position was it wasn't going to happen anyway. So that begs the question why you and others in the Delta MEC continue to spin this as the fault of us at ASA and CMR for wanting a "land grab" and trying to get "DOH". According you it didn't matter what we asked for, we wouldn't have gotten it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1778230)

DALPA was willing to attempt to get management to merge the airlines. I don't think they would have had any success in that. They tried to work a prenup. I was at one of the meetings. Comairs position was no prenup. The made it 100% clear they would only accept ALPA merger policy and would push for DOH in arbitration.
It was a classic case of pigs get feed and hogs get slaughtered.
Regardless as you mention and I agree Delta management was not going to merge the airlines so even had a prenup been reached nothing would have changed.