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ENY passes TA - 75% YES / 91% voting.
Anyone have the exact TA details to post here?
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Another proof that pilots are stupid. Management 3 - pilots 0
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But it's ok.. Their hands were tied they had to this or they would be shut down right?
The glass slipper has many owners apparently |
I wonder if pilots from Envoy were able to take their seniority with them to another carrier if they would've voted the same way? This will never stop. The deck is stacked in the favor of every major airline management group. Regional management groups are contractors, we are sub-contractors and will continue to get bent over....I mean competitively outbid. Unions are impotent and as a group we have no recourse but capitulation. Nothing will ever change on this side of the industry (regional). The next blow to any progress will come with the relaxation of scope. Before you know it, we will all be regional pilots and the major airline pay and benefits will all be just a memory. Merry Christmas!
ONE LIST! |
ENY passes TA - 75% YES / 91% voting.
I've had it with taking punches for everyone else.
If amount else out there had what happened to Envoy happen to them they would have voted in a contract, too. It's just the usual internet tough guys throwing out the SCAB word at every opportunity, and talk is cheap and easy when you're not the ones with the gun to your head. I never called any of the PSA/PDT bunch SCABs, but damn, signing contracts knowing other work groups in your airline will be forced to take concessions to realize the contract and that by signing your contract you will be taking another regional's aircraft, that's awful. If this TA had failed and over 2-3 years time Envoy's aircraft had been parceled out and delivered to other carriers, not a single one of them would have said no. More likely it would have been cheers at the upgrades and new flying it offers. Envoy would have been forgotten in a couple years. |
Originally Posted by skypilot35
(Post 1789060)
I wonder if pilots from Envoy were able to take their seniority with them to another carrier if they would've voted the same way? This will never stop. The deck is stacked in the favor of every major airline management group. Regional management groups are contractors, we are sub-contractors and will continue to get bent over....I mean competitively outbid. Unions are impotent and as a group we have no recourse but capitulation. Nothing will ever change on this side of the industry (regional). The next blow to any progress will come with the relaxation of scope. Before you know it, we will all be regional pilots and the major airline pay and benefits will all be just a memory. Merry Christmas!
ONE LIST! |
Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox
(Post 1789084)
I've had it with taking punches for everyone else.
If amount else out there had what happened to Envoy happen to them they would have voted in a contract, too. It's just the usual internet tough guys throwing out the SCAB word at every opportunity, and talk is cheap and easy when you're not the ones with the gun to your head. I never called any of the PSA/PDT bunch SCABs, but damn, signing contracts knowing other work groups in your airline will be forced to take concessions to realize the contract and that by signing your contract you will be taking another regional's aircraft, that's awful. |
I never said it was cool. It's a lousy deal.
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Originally Posted by NewPil0t
(Post 1789094)
If merging seniority lists was easy, US/AA wouldn't be in the middle of a prolonged 3 way negotiation since the merger was announced.
ONE LIST! |
RJ pilot breathes a sigh of relief. Later this year, he'll be able to trade in his 145 for a shiny new 175. Sadly though, all the extra profit from 26 more paying passengers will go into someone else's pocket. :(
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Something about flying the Super today will be extra special...
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Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox
(Post 1789084)
I've had it with taking punches for everyone else.
If amount else out there had what happened to PSA or PDT happen to them they would have voted in a contract, too. It's just the usual internet tough guys throwing out the SCAB word at every opportunity, and talk is cheap and easy when you're not the ones with the gun to your head. I never called any of the PSA/PDT bunch SCABs, but damn, signing contracts knowing other work groups in your airline will be forced to take concessions to realize the contract and that by signing your contract you will be taking another regional's aircraft, that's awful. If this TA had failed and over 2-3 years time PSA's and PDT's aircraft had been parceled out and delivered to other carriers, not a single one of them would have said no. More likely it would have been cheers at the upgrades and new flying it offers. PSA and PDT would have been forgotten in a couple years. |
That's a terrible edit, and nowhere does it say those other carriers undercut PSA or PDT and signed a contract expecting for that to be the result.
Nice try, though. |
Pilots are complete idiots.
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I'm expecting an ALPA email praising about this vote anytime now.
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Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox
(Post 1789231)
That's a terrible edit, and nowhere does it say those other carriers undercut PSA or PDT and signed a contract expecting for that to be the result.
Nice try, though. Anyways welcome to the party under Dougie. Don't worry it'll hurt less and less as time goes by. Who knows, maybe PSA would've voted yes by 75% if they threw $12,500 at us too. |
There you have it folks! You just witnessed the result of a WIPSAW! Still going strong even during a massive pilot shortage. Go Jet at one time, then Endeavor,PSA, and now Envoy. Its like a game of Limbo. How low can you go!!
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What's furlough protection?
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Envoy: another loser pilot group, just like PSA. Enjoy those new "regional jets" and your pay freeze concessionary contract.
Remember that when you see one of us taxing out there.... Signed: Ex-Eagle, current proud Spirit pilot and 2010 Strike ALPA Battle Star pin recipient. Alpa > Press Room > Spirit Pilots on Strike |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 1789157)
RJ pilot breathes a sigh of relief. Later this year, he'll be able to trade in his 145 for a shiny new 175. Sadly though, all the extra profit from 26 more paying passengers will go into someone else's pocket. :(
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Parker gets concessions from Envoy and announces a 4% pay raise for mainline employees the same day...coincidence? I think not. You got played like a Used fiddle.
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Originally Posted by Emb170man
(Post 1789435)
Parker gets concessions from Envoy and announces a 4% pay raise for mainline employees the same day...coincidence? I think not. You got played like a Used fiddle.
Good Luck. |
Originally Posted by A320Flyer
(Post 1789292)
Envoy: another loser pilot group, just like PSA. Enjoy those new "regional jets" and your pay freeze concessionary contract.
Remember that when you see one of us taxing out there.... Signed: Ex-Eagle, current proud Spirit pilot and 2010 Strike ALPA Battle Star pin recipient. Alpa > Press Room > Spirit Pilots on Strike |
Originally Posted by pagey
(Post 1789441)
Please, Envoy's situation in no way mirrors Spirit's.
Thank you! I was thinking the same thing. :rolleyes: |
I put the term sheet of the TA on the other thread:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...ptions-11.html |
Are the CRJs going to stay with Envoy now?
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From the XJT/ASA thread:
Originally Posted by PeezDog
(Post 1789757)
Now with this Envoy contract voted in and all the others who took a concession, any chance of us getting any real gains just went right out the window. So while pilots who took concessions, for whatever reasons, screwed the rest of us, the Unions are just as much to blame. We can blame the pilots all we want, but ALPA shares in on the blame as well. I think in our particular situation, both our MECs have done us more harm then good. We're approaching 4.5 years of contract negotiations without much progress. Yes, there was a TA, but we all know how that went, and now we are fighting over PBS again. The longer we delay our contact, the more it has hurt us. Had the MECs worked together in a professional, timely, and efficient way instead of acting like 5 year olds, then there wouldn't have been so much time for other airlines to vote in concessionary contracts. So now here we are with out much, if any, leverage. Had they stopped acting like children, we could have gotten a better contract, held the line or maybe even raised the bar; instead we stuck here with no clear view of what gains, if any, we can now possibly leverage. I for one, my patience is at an end with ALPA and both our unions. If there's not a TA soon, I'd love to vote every single one of your asses out. I hope the ERJ would agree with me. You fools are costing us, and every other pilot in the industry.
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Originally Posted by Concorde001
(Post 1789763)
Are the CRJs going to stay with Envoy now?
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Here's the future for ENY .........
Retire the entire EMB 145 fleet. Reassign 145s to other carriers ( In progress) Reassign the CRJ to other carriers ( In Progress) LAX MTX/Crew Base CLOSED ENY hangar has been rented to Compass. One crew base DFW. MTX/Crew base MIA CLOSED MTX MQT closed ASAP MTX ABI Shrink / Close after 145s are gone MTX XNA May close ,If AAG can negotiate futures on the hangars they may be saved. MTX SGF shrink to Line MTX only ASAP MTX ORD contacted to support Republic 175s, shrink to line mtx only. AAG has the ENY hangar leased for a long time , REP may rent it. Crew base closed. MTX CMH may stay operational Heavy MTX 175s DFW MTX Line MTX only the hangar in DFW is to small for the 175 may rent space from AAG if needed. AAG group will dangle those options for further concessions and will get them. |
Originally Posted by B1RD
(Post 1789860)
Here's the future for ENY .........
Retire the entire EMB 145 fleet. Reassign 145s to other carriers ( In progress) Reassign the CRJ to other carriers ( In Progress) LAX MTX/Crew Base CLOSED ENY hangar has been rented to Compass. One crew base DFW. MTX/Crew base MIA CLOSED MTX MQT closed ASAP MTX ABI Shrink / Close after 145s are gone MTX XNA May close ,If AAG can negotiate futures on the hangars they may be saved. MTX SGF shrink to Line MTX only ASAP MTX ORD contacted to support Republic 175s, shrink to line mtx only. AAG has the ENY hangar leased for a long time , REP may rent it. Crew base closed. MTX CMH may stay operational Heavy MTX 175s DFW MTX Line MTX only the hangar in DFW is to small for the 175 may rent space from AAG if needed. AAG group will dangle those options for further concessions and will get them. |
So post what it should say.
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One question is where are the E175's going to be operated and based out of? Would that not help determine what if any bases are closed or shrink?
Another is where are the ERJ's going to be operated that were sent to Express and TSA? |
Originally Posted by planedoctor
(Post 1790114)
One question is where are the E175's going to be operated and based out of? Would that not help determine what if any bases are closed or shrink?
Another is where are the ERJ's going to be operated that were sent to Express and TSA? |
+++++++++++REVISION++++++++++
New York Crew base Closed New York MTX shrink / May Close. They've already closed ALB and BGR years ago once the BEX acquisition was completed. Sure, ALB and BGR remained open however after a few years they couldn't be saved. Same will happen again in the near future..2/3 years I would guess. Truth is ENY will not be anywhere near the size it was prior to the BR. My earlier post may be debated , that's fine. AAG will eventually make ENY a service company providing ground handling and possibly contacted MTX. no flying , period. Legacy AE were doomed when your planes were signed over to AA prior to the BR . You own NOTHING anymore. AAG will place those options where they want and play each group against the other. If I recall Parker prefers keeping the regionals separate in order to manage in the style he was trained under; old style AA management. |
A lot of hard talk out of Envoy pilots.
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Originally Posted by B1RD
(Post 1789860)
Here's the future for ENY .........
Retire the entire EMB 145 fleet. Reassign 145s to other carriers ( In progress) Reassign the CRJ to other carriers ( In Progress) LAX MTX/Crew Base CLOSED ENY hangar has been rented to Compass. One crew base DFW. MTX/Crew base MIA CLOSED MTX MQT closed ASAP MTX ABI Shrink / Close after 145s are gone MTX XNA May close ,If AAG can negotiate futures on the hangars they may be saved. MTX SGF shrink to Line MTX only ASAP MTX ORD contacted to support Republic 175s, shrink to line mtx only. AAG has the ENY hangar leased for a long time , REP may rent it. Crew base closed. MTX CMH may stay operational Heavy MTX 175s DFW MTX Line MTX only the hangar in DFW is to small for the 175 may rent space from AAG if needed. AAG group will dangle those options for further concessions and will get them. |
Next time I'm in DFW, I better not hear any flak from PSA #2 because I'm Mesa!
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Originally Posted by Da40Pilot
(Post 1790324)
...but who's going to win the next World Series?
2015? Put some money on the Cubs! http://youtu.be/ADXs2C4Vmho |
Originally Posted by Redbird611
(Post 1790603)
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Originally Posted by B1RD
(Post 1789860)
Here's the future for ENY .........
Retire the entire EMB 145 fleet. Reassign 145s to other carriers ( In progress) Reassign the CRJ to other carriers ( In Progress) LAX MTX/Crew Base CLOSED ENY hangar has been rented to Compass. One crew base DFW. MTX/Crew base MIA CLOSED MTX MQT closed ASAP MTX ABI Shrink / Close after 145s are gone MTX XNA May close ,If AAG can negotiate futures on the hangars they may be saved. MTX SGF shrink to Line MTX only ASAP MTX ORD contacted to support Republic 175s, shrink to line mtx only. AAG has the ENY hangar leased for a long time , REP may rent it. Crew base closed. MTX CMH may stay operational Heavy MTX 175s DFW MTX Line MTX only the hangar in DFW is to small for the 175 may rent space from AAG if needed. AAG group will dangle those options for further concessions and will get them. |
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