If regular line Captains have to train their First Officers, that First Officer should have not been released from OE.

 

Disagree, IOE makes the F/O qual'd to be just that--an F/O. It's the captains' job is to make them ready to be, wait for it, Captains.

USMCFLYR

I'm impressed with a 5,000 hour AD Hornet pilot, only 6 5,000 hour Viper guys, all in the ANG/AFRC.

GF

 

Yep after O4 more desk time than stick time.
generally speaking of course there are exceptions of course.

 

1000 hours is probably a good enough. Reducible by current reducible factors in legislation.

 

The guy never had a non-flying billet I think the story went and eventually was the CO of VMFA-134 'Smokes'. I only ran across one 5,000 USN Hornet pilot. A former VFA-106 OPSO of mine ('Smurf' Szarletta for any of you USN types out there) had just broken 4,000 last I saw him and was still going strong.

Marine pilot reaches 5,000 Hornet hours

 

I once met Jack Jackson (USMC, McDonnell Douglas, Boeing), who set a record of 5500 hours in the Harrier before he retired.

 

The crux of the argument is what should a line Captain be teaching. If the line captain has to teach basic aircraft control or IFR procedures, then that is an issue. If the FO needs to learn about ADM or specific stuff related to the operation of a complex aircraft, then that is normal.

In the last two weeks, I had to teach one FO which climb profile to use for the current conditions. I didn't mind teaching that because it was something that is specific to our operations and is not covered in training. One week later, I had to fly with an FO who did not understand how to enter a VFR pattern. I found myself explaining multiple times that we were entering a 45 to the downwind to an uncontrolled field. He was confused because a straight in to the other runway was easier. Now I am on the base leg explaining that we could not land on the other runway because it had a 12 knot tailwind (and yes, 20 minutes before this, I briefed what I was going to do). 24 hours later, the FO was still confused about my "unorthodox" pattern.

 

I've heard of him and saw a news story on him quite some time back. Even more respect for spending that much time in that aircraft

2StgTurbine - can you share the backgrounds of each FO if you know?
I'll take a shot in the dark that you're second FO without knowledge of the VFR pattern entries was possibly a Mil only pilot. I remember that civilian VFR pattern entry/exit was never taught during my military training.

I agree with your "crux" of the argument too. There is hopefully always something the more experienced pilot can be handing down to the new FO (at least new to the operation/company/etc...)

 

What about part d?

(d) CREDIT TOWARD FLIGHT HOURS.—The Administrator may
allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required
under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours
required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such
credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing
a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance
safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight
hours requirement.

Congress required the ATP, and the FAA says how many hours it'll take. That's the cutout for the Restricted ATP at 750, 1000, and 1250 hours.

 

I wish! The first FO was strictly a 1500 hour CFI, but he knew he had a lot to learn. Second was civilian but had 4 years of PIC experience flying cargo in a Shorts. Unfortunately, I could tell the second FO stopped learning as soon as they passed their commercial. If they were military (or had an equivalent knowledge base) then they would at least be able to understand the entry I was describing even if they never did it before.