Unfortunately, as with many professions, the longer you do it the more chance you have of screwing up. It's harder to find a 25 year old fresh out of college with any kind of bad flying record.

 

You're right - no experience whatsoever with merit-based advancement having worked seven years in a Part 91 flight department, along with friends who left ANA and CP based in no small part on your desired system.

Like I said, you're ****ing into the wind and if you think you're being left behind you can always go work at Emirates or Qatar, or most any 91/135 business aviation operation. Sounds like you would be happier at a place like that.

Laying the decline of the profession on the seniority system (with no regard to economics, business law, market changes, evolution of aircraft and the industry, etc) alone is myopic at best and downright dishonestly stupid at worst.

 

Couldn't have been the 30 day strike.........

 

There's no way the majors will ever use a scale based on merit. Yes it would force pilots to becoming better at knowing what they should know. There is no way that the mainline airlines will switch to a merit based system. Regionals....maybe some day once they are gone and someone wants to try it just cause or another Southwest comes along using it. Mainlines would result in an entire rework which will never happen. The seniority system has its flaws, ever system does. A merit based system will just introduce a very corrupt system.

How is a seniority based system corrupt exactly? You get hired and wait in line, no skipping allowed. Yes you can skip spots at a base if you take on a management/training position but you do not skip ahead in line. Ever. Merges are a nightmare when combining pilot seniority lists but aren't really corrupt just unfair sometimes. The RLA is where the heart of the problem is. Being able to strike would result in an increase in QoL instantly since management doesn't have ALL of the cards in their hand. Just look at Republic for the proof as well as others in the past.

Honestly the best thing would be to eliminate the regional model and all of this would be eliminated all together. No more regionals taking concessions to under bid another regional and it would eliminate the top heavy regional issue. Yes there will still be issues but pay will increase for regional jet level pilots since there is absolutely no competition between two companies to fly the same route except on the mainline level which is a COMPLETELY different animal then at the regionals.

 

Steve,

While changing the RLA to make strikes more possible might help put more cards on ALPA's side, I still don't see how it fundamentally changes the dynamic of management using seniority as a leverage. The senior top half still can't move to an equal paying job, so they're still stuck and mgt knows it. Airline strikes have rarely been huge successes. Ask me, I was EAL.

GF

 

It doesn't matter who you talked to, The fact is things have changed. Im not saying attrition is zero, what I'm saying is it reduced, and hiring is up, period.

As for shortsightedness, cash pays the bills, hopes of an upgrade at x regional airline given this dynamic industry we are in today doesn't.

Im not advocating coming to 9E vs another regional, thats a personal decision everyone makes on their own. Im only stating the facts-the money has had a positive effect.

 

This is true. I am not saying the the RLA is the root cause of the issues, its only a catalyst for management and a crutch for pilots. A double whammy that make negotiations very inefficient since management has the trump card which says "What are you going to do about it? Strike? Ohhh, that's right, you can't."

I agree about the fact that pilots can't transfer to a equal paying job at another airline. That is a huge issue with the seniority system but I can't picture a better way to handle how you would determine who gets which flights and bases. Forget pay, that can totally be merit based somehow that isn't corrupt (or can it?), the main issue would be scheduling. That cannot be merit based at all in my opinion. How could scheduling not be seniority based?

 

Steve,

Actually, seniority-based scheduling is very rare outside the U.S. lines. Elsewhere, even Europe union shops, schedulers put pilots on schedules according to management imposed rules and seniority has little do with it. And, since most have little differences between fleets, seniority only puts on the fleet you want to fly--shirt or long haul is about seniority does for you.

I agree seniority is the only way to run large, mostly interchangeable groups, just recognize its shortcomings in our environment. One of those being lack of portable jobs.

Before you wish for strike options, read up on pilot strikes.

GF

 

I realize that foreign operators have other systems but there would be no way to change and implement it at this point.

I do realize strikes do not bode well and don't suggest doing so at all. I am only saying it would give the management and pilot groups a level playing field. The pilots threaten a strike is nothing in today's negotiations but if they were plausible, it would make management actually have to counter because of the real risk it implies. Most likely the ultimate demise of the airline if it can not handle the impact of planes being grounded. That regional would most likely go under. This levels the playing field for negotiations. Pilots can strike if they want to launch that nuke and possibly lose their jobs, management can actually fear that nuke coming for once and preemptively stop it from occurring and also losing their jobs.

I do not support striking at all unless management is not taking the threat seriously. How do you think Republic would be doing if they could have actually went on strike? They probably would have a contract that can be agreed upon and a long time ago.

 

You know, in the old days when pilots went on strike knowing it would likely turn out bad but they did it anyway...fellow union members at other airlines would support them....offering them extended jumpseat priveledges, preferential hiring, etc. I guess those days are over now.

The majors dont want you to strike at the regionals and the union probably will turn its back on you. Very sad I suppose.

In most industries without strict seniority systems (pretty much everything else), seniority still comes into place but its more manageble because its designed to facilitate vacations, schedules, and promotions (when all else is equal). That would still always be the case in airlines even without the strict seniority system....very much like larger part 91 operations. The main difference is it would allow pilots to make lateral job moves and eliminate the stranglehold management has over its pilots.

Steve and GF I appreciate your candid and honest discussion. It seems pilots have an all or nothing attitude with seniorityy as if the current system is the only way to keep things under control. From what i see its the best way to keep pay under control. The airline industry has thrived and labor is in higher demand while pay has become worse. It behaves opposite of the normal effects of free market. No other industry has this system of control over its employees.