Notices
Regional Regional Airlines

Ideal Regional Airline

Old 03-04-2015 | 12:45 PM
  #1  
rickair7777's Avatar
Thread Starter
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,841
Likes: 653
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default Ideal Regional Airline

The surprising root contributing factors of this accident shed pretty good light on the ideal (from management perspective) structure of a regional airline. If you have time to watch the whole thing, you'll be astounded...this "airline" embodies in real life every bad joke and caricature of regionals. With the predictable sad results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdYnkgKLXms
Reply
Old 03-04-2015 | 01:37 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 923
Likes: 0
Default

What a mess. Yet another reason it's better to have the logo on the tail match the logo on your paycheck.
Reply
Old 03-05-2015 | 06:56 AM
  #3  
Cubdriver's Avatar
Moderator
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,056
Likes: 0
From: ATP, CFI etc.
Default

This a litany of systematic mistakes coupled with some individual pilot errors under high stress load. When the safety chain gets compromised this many times in an organization, an error chain develops and then nobody can really stop it at the final level (ie. pilot). The genesis of most of it is money-driven behavior by most companies to farm anything possible out to the lowest bidder. I see this all the time, and what it does is remove the correct eyes from the job and put someone who is not actually responsible/knowledgeable there. For example, the ramp where I fly snow is supposedly removed by a contractor, but the contractor does not know what really needs to be done since they are not in the flying business, they are excavators mainly, but since they are supposedly qualified to do the job nobody higher up watches very closely to see what they are actually doing. They do the minimum to get the paycheck because that's all that's in it for them. So when the pilots go to their plane, there's two feet of snow drift around it and not as much as a vague plan for removing it by anyone. This is an example of systematic organizational error chain. Now the pilot has to remove a ton of snow to maintain proper safety, which is not in their job description.
Reply
Old 03-05-2015 | 01:28 PM
  #4  
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Default

I find it disconcerting that I see many of those practices at my own company. We have an extremely punitive sick/fatigue call system that puts a lot of pressure on crews to push the limits.
Reply
Old 03-05-2015 | 01:40 PM
  #5  
Yosemite Sam's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: CA
Default

Ideal regional airline? The one closest to the Welfare office.

In other words there is no such thing.
Reply
Old 03-05-2015 | 01:48 PM
  #6  
IlliniPilot99's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 582
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Rahlifer
I find it disconcerting that I see many of those practices at my own company. We have an extremely punitive sick/fatigue call system that puts a lot of pressure on crews to push the limits.
exactly, just because there is a limit, doesn't mean you have to achieve that limit it every time!
Reply
Old 03-05-2015 | 01:53 PM
  #7  
skypilot35's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 622
Likes: 1
From: It's hot out here.
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
The surprising root contributing factors of this accident shed pretty good light on the ideal (from management perspective) structure of a regional airline. If you have time to watch the whole thing, you'll be astounded...this "airline" embodies in real life every bad joke and caricature of regionals. With the predictable sad results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdYnkgKLXms
I'm not sure why the CA decided to just take the power levers and not the aircraft. By taking part of the aircraft, he severely limited the FOs feel for the aircraft and prevented the FO from identifying the cause of the roll. I realize this is not the point of your post but I think it is an excellent example of poor CRM.
The FO obviously realized the action was non-standard and did not speak up. I think if the FO had offered the CA the aircraft the situation and outcome would have been different. Not because the FO was incapable or incompetent, but because the CA was uncomfortable in his new position.

There were certainly compounding factors, but I think this one factor was the final nail in the coffin.
Reply
Old 03-11-2015 | 03:36 PM
  #8  
Pasargad's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Default

same **** different pile
Reply
Old 03-13-2015 | 07:04 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 1
From: Downwind, headed straight for the rocks, shanghaied aboard the ship of fools.
Default

Originally Posted by Rahlifer
I find it disconcerting that I see many of those practices at my own company. We have an extremely punitive sick/fatigue call system that puts a lot of pressure on crews to push the limits.
I don't see any of those practices here. You can be mad at the company all you want but don't just make stuff up. Our sick/fatigue call system isn't extremely punitive. You can accumulate four every rolling twelve months with nothing but a phone call checking up on you on your fourth. You can go all the way to eight before they will threaten you with termination. That's one sick call every month and a half. If you can't understand what a crappy employee you are at that point then perhaps a tough lesson is in order. You folks aren't entitled to a job.
Reply
Old 03-13-2015 | 08:28 AM
  #10  
snipeone's Avatar
On Reserve
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Default

ide·al \ī-ˈdē(-ə)l, ˈī-ˌ\ : exactly right for a particular purpose, situation, or person





Full Definition of IDEAL:

1) existing as an archetypal idea



2) existing as a mental image or in fancy or imagination only; broadly : lacking practicality

3) relating to or constituting mental images or conceptions
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
OutsourceNoMo
American
52
09-24-2023 10:35 AM
dvhighdrive88
United
74
06-03-2013 07:34 AM
groovinaviator
Regional
24
02-11-2008 03:34 PM
papacharlie
Regional
39
01-27-2008 05:01 PM
ryane946
Major
12
10-09-2006 05:52 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices