Your mad because I say it like it is. I'm not going to go to my grave wondering what a bunch of outspoken pilots on an Internet forum thought about me and my decisions. I've never been one to mislead people about the airline I've chosen to work at. I've always told the good, the bad, and the ugly. And don't preach to me about my "me first" attitude from your self-righteous high horse. What have you done personally to further this profession and this industry? I have done a lot more in my life that I feel is more important and that I am more proud of than flying an airplane. This is a means to an end. Please tell me how many among you who would so quickly write me off say that you actually know what hard times are? Have you ever even had to worry about where your next meal would come from? So your damn right I'm going to do what's best for me and my family short of crossing a picket line. YOU never did anything for me, nor will you ever. You want to vilify me for that attitude? Fine. I'll still sleep easy tonight knowing that my responsibilities are looked after.

Not mad. And it's "you're", not "your". I got over being mad about mgmt toadies like you long ago. Just tellin' you how it is with your type. You wouldn't know "unity" if it walked up and smack-cam'd you across your silly little face. Wouldn't cross a picket-line? I LOL'd. You'd be the very first, using your family as an excuse no less. You are EXACTLY the type who likes to say "Don't hate the playa, hate the game"...trying so hard to pretend that it doesn't take "playas" just like you to make the game as chitty as it is. Like I said, mgmt cockroaches COUNT on people like you. And the fact that you say you can sleep soundly at night knowing all this proves you have no respect, either for yourself or for anyone else.

Just don't pretend you aren't part of the problem, ok sport? Thanks.

^Makes fun of me because my phone autocorrected something and I didn't proofread. Uses "LOL" in rebuttals.

And as I stated earlier you don't know me or anything about me. There is NO unity among regional's or regional pilots. It has been that way long before I got the industry. And we (pilots) aren't to blame. We don't make the rules, we just play the game.

(yawn)




















filler

Pretty much.

Yea I didn't think so. It's apparent you think pretty highly of yourself.

Well, at least you know what your posts are worth. Congrats. ;)

I'm not even mad, but your use of derogatory name-calling is evidence of either a thinly veiled attempt to troll or maybe you really are mad. I don't know and I don't care. Party on Wayne.

To say flying an airplane is easy is wrong. We make it seem easy but it isnt. Have you ever CFI'ed? Been an instructor of any sort? It isnt easy to do what we do. The amount of knowledge is more on par with a lawyer than a truck driver. Here is the other part: we have to be flawless. A lawyer can lose cases or misfile briefs. We can't.

How is flying passengers in one type of airliner, entry level, but in another type in EXACTLY the same manner and environment, it isn't? If you fly 50 seats four legs or 200 seats one leg, the amt. of seats being flown are the same. The speeds, destinations, skill-set and responsibility are all the same. The job of airline pilot is not an entry level job. No one should be entry level at 500 knots at FL350. An FO is not an apprentice, and has to be ready and able to fly and do everything single handed if the captain is incapacitated. Entry level jobs don't require years of experience and training and don't require that level of responsibility. The reason for the 1500 hr rule is so that airline pilot will never be considered an entry level job again. The act of flying is easy because we do it so much, and it's so easy an Airbus fell out of the sky due to a minor malfunction and gross pilot error. It's so easy, a major airline stalled onto the runway at SFO and killed people in perfect weather.

No one is disputing the fact that regional pilots are under paid and over worked. I knew coming into it that a regional job is stepping stone. For majority of us anyways. I would like to see pay rates go up to livable wages. As I mentioned before $55,000-$65,000 first FO pay would be a good start. Regionals need to stop voting YES on BS TA's. Hopefully Mesa will vote down there TA which has poverty level hourly rates! FO top pay of $40 after 9 years.. Captain pay for the small ERJ/CRJ is on average $20-$30 per hour less than other regional.... If we vote crap like this in we will never see competitive wages.

DAL is having negotiations. They can stop all regional flying for DAL. Just take out the "permitted" flying and back to all flying to be done by a DAL pilot. Lets see what happens.

Last time I went to a golden arch, I think they nuked the burger instead of frying???

So they are button pushers too ;)

I see you tried to troll the major guys a bit ago, and failed. Does that make you an entry level troll?

FYI, depending on what city, full time Uber drivers make between $25K at $75K.

Que? Flying an airliner isn't easy. It's easy for you because of your highly focused speciality training.

I agree with some of your points, but this isn't one of them. Are you new to the industry? Are you one of those pilots that thinks they're performing miracles? If any phase of flight is easy, it's the cruise phase. Do you think that you're Chuck Yeager seeing "the demon"? You dramatize it as some kind amazing feat because you're going 500 knots at 350. :rolleyes:. Why do you think Cathay, et al hire cruise pilots with lower minimums? Aviator or non aviator, no one is impressed with 500 measly knots. Hell, even SR-71 pilots talk about boredom during cruise.

As for your statement that entry level jobs don't require years of experience, what does it take to go from zero to hero now days even with the new rules, two, even one and a half? That doesn't say seasoned aviator to me.

Please don't publically advocate for our profession, because that would be embarrassing.

I was literally thinking about this earlier today, its as if you stole the thoughts from my head. The 50 seater jets will be going away eventually, and replaced with these 76 seater "regional" jets. Now 4 legs would be equal to 304 passengers carried daily, assuming a full flight each leg of course. Compare that to the previous 200 passengers carried daily. One argument for the large pay disparity has always been the smaller size of the aircraft, and the lesser amount of passengers carried. How then is it rationalized that pilots should carry more passengers in larger aircraft for the same, or less pay (see recent concessionary contracts)?

With the internet, and social media, why aren't we doing more and standing up for ourselves? How hard would it be to start some sort of grass roots movement? Teachers can shut down schools, and UNION construction workers can disrupt my commute by shutting down construction projects if they don't get their yearly raises. A guy driving a very complex vibratory asphalt compactor makes more than some new regional captains, and most work seasonally.

There are literally tens of thousands of <25 year olds chomping at the bit, to live in crash pad for 20+ days a month, fly a 121 jet, that are ready, willing, and able to work for cheap. They justify it with the rationale that it will just be a temporary "stepping stone" for them, because the stars in there eyes of making it to a major airline someday blind them to stark reality that tens of thousands of others have experienced.

This pool of labor will continue to undermine and devalue the efforts of the rest of the industry to raise compensation, not just at thier specific place of employ, but industry wide.

Reality is that you are brainless... Pilots have much more power than you think...The only thing holding them back in the U.S is the lack of organization...If everyone was to walk off the job for even one day- It would literally shut down America....This is what needs to happen...As far as Doctors and Lawyers, I know plenty of idiots in law and medicine so please do not even go there...

Interesting, I see the $2.168 billion profit which takes the PAX Revenue of $12,899 (Mainline PAX Rev) + $3,197 (Regional PAX Rev) + $471 (Cargo) + $1,955 (Other Rev) totaling $18,522 in revenue. Minus expenses totaling $16,336 you get the $2.168 billion profit. Regional revenue results in 19% of total operating revenue.

So what you're saying is that the regional operating revenue $3,197 minus the CPA's $1,157 is all profit, but what you fail to acknowledge is that mainline covers all of the other costs of doing business. Without mainline, regional operators would not exist. ACA/Indy died quickly, and XJT tried an LCC with 50 seaters that died quickly as well.

Really, so you agree that UAX covers 94% of the operating income on 19% operating revenue?

Regional revenue minus regional operating costs is where that number comes from. The reason regionals blow away every other part of the operation, is because they operate in markets that the regionals have a monopoly over. You will find that mainline is competing in high capacity routes where competition is fierce, and margins are thin.

For instance, I just pulled up a fare from United.com for ORD to LAX, Cost $249. I pulled a fare from ORD to ATW, cost $939. Regionals are absolute cash cows.

That's beside the point. See it's not about me, it's about you. Imagine if the RJ's were at mainline. If you found out you were flying the lowest paid jet, but making 94% of the profits, you would demand fair compensation. This is what the senior guys fear, and the reason that flying was given away. As a result, the senior pilots, instead of empowering the junior folks, got to deposit that money into their own accounts. Does that make sense?

Seriously? The job is easy relative to what? Repetition and focused professional training is what makes professionals professionals. We make the job look easy. Just because the surgeon who makes his 546th appendectomy look easy, doesn't mean that performing an appendectomy is easy. An airline pilot shooting his 546th ILS can probably do it in his sleep, but that does NOT make it "easy".

BTW, your attitude is management's wet dream, as they can make their case by quoting idiotic statements like yours in their continued attack on our profession.

Crash an RJ = people die.
Crash a 737 = people die.

Mess up someone's burger order = mild inconvenience.

I fail to see the correlation...

I realize all that, but I was responding logically to Fegelein's ridiculous statement that a regional airline pilot is an entry level position. The other stuff has nothing to do with his statement.

If this is the case, why are all the regionals screaming pilot shortage? Who's going to pay to train that that pool of 10,000 ? The world is much flatter now and information about the lifestyle is no longer hidden. Loans for training are difficult to get and the economic situation precarious for even upper middle class earning parents. The regional model is failing and would-be airline pilots are seeing that when they do the research on boards like these. The 10,000 aren't the threat, MPL is.

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Nope













Filler

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What this anal orifice (fegelein) is doing is a thinly veiled slight aimed towards the c-scale pilots (see, I have discontinued using the word regional).

He's likening them to minimum wage entry level jobs, such as McDonald's, hence the burger-flipping analogy. His condescending tone leaves little doubt that he thinks himself, and his A and B scale brothers to be superior to the lowly c-scale pilot in every way.

See, back in the day, it was all turbo prop. 19 seat metros and jet streams. Then came the Saabs and Brazilias, and the Dash8 30 plus seats. The ATRs were in there too with 40 plus or 70 plus. Ahh. Then the shiny jets started showing up. (See the gap between what C-scale and A/B scale narrowing?). Oh nuts! Here comes some bigger c-scale jets, even with engines mounted under the wings!! Now it's completely indistinguishable. Same job. Same responsibility. Same training. Same passengers. Same routes. Same altitudes. Same speeds. Same approaches and departures.

Less than half the pay.




Shut up and go home little boy---nothing for you here.




Disclaimer----if I have left off anyone's turbo prop from the above list I do apologize. I had 8000 plus hours in the Saab---you can see what that would do to a guy, right?

Fegelein is bating all of you. He failed to get hired at a regional, and now works for one of the mid tier cargo companies.

Yep. 'bating is what his thread is.

Yet it was in cruise where AF 447 began it's end. It was at FL 400 where Pinnacle pilots made the errors that ended their lives. It was in cruise where Alaska 261 lost control, etc., etc. It sure was easy, until SHTF. Are you sure you are not new to this industry? Cathay hires cruise pilots because they can and there exists the MPL which allows it. It doesn't mean it's a good idea. BTW, flame baiting with insults doesn't work on me. The only reason I comment on these things is for those who might believe some of this BS.

You've mentioned that split before, numerous times, and I'm sorry but it just destroys your credibility when you do so. Which is a shame, because you mostly make good arguments for many things.

I know you've quoted the (United I think? Whatever) official filings that "prove under penalty of intergalactic perjury" that 94% of their profits came from their express operation. I don't believe it, and neither does anyone else. Anyone. Not even you.

You really think an airline operation that has 800ish mainline planes and 400ish RJ's averaging about a quarter the size and carrying a quarter to less of the pax and almost none of the cargo could possibly make 94% of the profits? If so, why are all the airlines parking them and transferring block hours to their mainline? So they can make 94% less profits? You really think there is enough pilot or total labor cost differential to fuel that much of a profit differential? If so, from where? RJ's, even the big ones, are an expensive seat and labor per pax cost is actually fairly high.

You really, actually think, that these global behemoths printing billions per quarter are really just small regional powerhouse ticket agents carrying the deadweight of a massive global alliance?

I don't care what spreadsheet or filing form you think you saw, there is no way regionals are makins 94% of billion(s) per quarter per airline in profits. No way. And you don't believe that either.

Fred Reid, is that you? :rolleyes: