Well they'll make up 80% of each class in 2016 so that's not dreaming.

We all had a choice didn't we??? Burn it down said all the envoy people on here. What happened ???? A yes vote, it all PSA's fault. Lol
How can I as a PDT talk crap about PSA when signed the same deal.
Envoy had a choice didn't they?????? Just let it go. Your crying is sad!!

In the end envoy voted yes anyway. Great work guys.

So you, as a junior PSA puke, are going to tell me how an envoy pilot feels or will feel towards a PSA pilot?! That makes me laugh. You guys really are clueless as to how much you're despised over here.

Sorry, not going to let it go. And neither is anyone else over here. Not when our career earnings were compromised by selfish and greedy pilots such as those that make up PSA.

Yes yes, and you all hate Mesa pilots, and pretty much every other regional pilot that is not Envoy... Really, it is silly for you to blame others for your own decisions and bad luck timing the market.

Greedy Pilots???? Who PSA or ENVOY????

About 7 years ago PSA was offered the CRJ 900's but Parker wanted them to fly them at there blended rate. PSA pilots stood up and said HELL NO!!!! Parker turned around and gave the 900's to Mesa. Next time Parker came with back with the 900's and the threat of more going to Mesa so PSA took them.

Envoy was offered the 175 at a lower rate then they wanted and they said HELL NO!!! Parker says fine and sent the 175's to Compass and the threat of more going to Compass. Next time Envoy was offered there deal they took it.

So where's the difference???????? Shouldn't PSA be mad at Mesa??? Shouldn't Envoy be mad at Compass???

One day you might be slinging the gear for a PSA pilot at American then what?? You going to puff your chest up at him then???

You might not like PSA, but one thing I've learned in this business is to not burn bridges. Get over yourself cause ENVOY is not better then PSA or Piedmont.

Ok buddy, easy on the use of question marks, you sound like you're going to blow a gasket.

That being said, use that rationale when you have this same convo in indoc. Seriously. You fail to mention that while we did say no to 175's at lower rates, we also said no to 900's at b-scale rates, rates that PSA was all too happy to accept. Did I also mention that PSA's MEC asked AAG for our pilots along with our planes? Oh and one HUGE thing I also forgot, the reason why we eventually had to say yes was because any leverage that was had in the regional industry was destroyed by PSA "lowering the bar."

Again, have this same exact conversation in indoc and report back. I'm sorry if you're upset that envoy pilots don't like PSA pilots but that is reality. You think I'm harsh on here? You should hear my coworkers on the line. Again. Agree with me or not but that is the reality we're in. It's a damn shame I'll ever have to share a cockpit with a PSA pilot but I've accepted that it is a likely reality.

I feel bad for anyone that has to share a cockpit with you period. Ever. No matter where they come from or what they flew. You're an extremely bitter person who only points fingers at everyone else. An astronaut couldn't do any right by you because he came from the AirForce and not Envoy. It's pathetic.

Ouch you really hurt my feelings! Haha. I just hope any potential PSA pilots know what mess they're getting themselves into.

LOL, dude I'm far from blowing a gasket!:rolleyes: It just fun calling you out on the bs you're throwing at PSA. Did you know ENVOY was trying to steal all of Piedmont flow slots? hahahahahahahah Get real.
Believe me when I go to American in a few months the last I'll be discussing is Piedmont, PSA and Envoy. If I'm in class and someone starts to talk about it I'll just shake my head and know the dude/gal is a total loser.
I could care less if you hate PSA. But I won't let you come on here and act like you and EVNOY are any better cause you aren't. Hate away!!

Envoy folks are no different than any other regional pilot out there, plain and simple. If you are looking for an apology from a PDT, PSA, or any other pilot you are never going to get it. I could care less what anyone thinks or gossips about. Get over it, so we have something else to talk about when we are sharing a cockpit. That is what a professional would do...but hey if you want to keep swinging your d's around, expect to be treated like d's. Now back to why we should be making 100k as FO's....ohhh riiight we are professionals...aha!

Yep! This clown thinks we're going to go to indoc at mainline and talk about this??? hahahahahahahahahah I'll be talking about what equipment I can fly with the most days off and the easiest commute. I could give a rats a$$ about PSA or ENVOY, MESA, COMMUTAIR, SKYWEST, REPUBLIC.. etc etc etc.:rolleyes:

You're absolutely correct, anyone who is going to care about regional politics from the past when they make it to mainline are not psychologically fit to be in that seat.

Qualifications being equal, I'd like to think any pilots in charge of mainline hiring would choose guys who've more positively impacted the industry than not. I'm not saying blacklist employees of recently unpopular airlines, but it would be preferable to hire someone who went on strike at Comair over the Freedom A-listers and the initial cadre at GoJet.

It's a small industry...

You can't do that when every regional at some point has sold the other out. Comair got big on the backs of low wages and everyone paying for their training to fly a jet. Of course they got big and did strike only because Delta screwed up and allowed them to get too big. Mistake Delta won't make again.

Funny you say that, cause where dos most of those Comair guys go?

I thought the same thing you think for about a year when the vote first happened.
PSA would have never flown your E-jets, or 145's. You could have held out for the moon for them. The flow is why your contract passed. Your leverage was lost when your furture planes were moved to Compass and your current planes were moved to XJT, Trans States, and PDT.
You were literally shown the path of Comair.
If the 900's & 700's went to PSA without 12/4, how would you have prevented the other planes from moving?

A judge ruled several years ago that only the Eagle pilot union could fly Eagle planes since their company co-signed the loans to buy them. When your Union surrendered that for flow your pilot group became a victim of extortion.

he might be....

What the heck are you talking about? Please start making some sense. You're agreeing with me and then saying No?

I'm going to break it down real easy for a simpleton such as yourself to understand. With the responsibility of hundreds of lives entailed to us on a daily basis, we are worth more then what we are currently being paid. I am willing to fight for that. You have shown you are not. By accepting a job at PSA (a known bottom feeder) you have shown that you are ok with the negotiated contract. I'm going to assume you weren't at PSA at the time of the 2013 vote based on how clueless you are to the industry.

Take a look at the second point I made. I'm not sure why you're calling me Hillary when the whole point of my argument was comparing you with Soviet Russia? You seem to believe that every job in this country deserves the same pay (read...communism). I disagree. I am willing to fight for higher pay. You have shown that you are not.

If you are worth more then why aren't you making more? You are getting paid exactly what you are worth, exactly what you agreed to be paid. It's that simple. Hey I hope your union negotiates a big windfall, but until that happens capitalism reigns, supply and demand. But to sit here and say because you fly an airplane that you are automatically entitled to anything is absurd. Personally I wouldn't give you a mop job.

Man, I really hope you never make it to AA. I hate to think what kind of contract you would agree to. I bet you would be willing to fly a 777 across the pond for $50/hour at this point.

Take note folks, this is the future of the piloting profession...brought to you by PSA!

It's not about what you are worth, its about what you negotiate.

If we weren't held back by the RLA, I think you might see what we're really worth.

United American and Delta abide by the RLA, why are they better off?

Categorically untrue, but please feel free to make up any lies necessary to justify PSA and PDT selling out the industry.

What's untrue???? Do you not realize that mainline carriers farmed out their regional flying to the lowest bidder?? Are you new to this industry??


As for me justifying Piedmont (which is the only one I can talk about) I honestly don't care what anyone thinks. We did what WE felt was good for US! Just like every airline has there choices. Carry on everyone.:rolleyes:

Basically it got billy that multi-million dollar mainline job that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise, so he "doesn't really care" what you think. Did I get that right?

Btw, I just love hearing you guys say "I don't care what you think of us" it really helps your case!!!

I just can't wth this child anymore, someone else is going to have to hold his hand.

Far from new... The untrue part "You can't do that when every regional at some point has sold the other out".

Well name some that haven't.

Are you new to this industry? From the enormous amount of time you spend on here, not even sure if you're really a part of it.


Horizon, Air Wisconsin, Skywest, ASA, etc.

Mainline carriers care about one thing and that's cost. Sure AWAC for example is a great airline with a good contract and great pilot group. Do you see any Mainline carriers lined up to sign them? Nope, because their cost are too High. United asked them to take cuts to be in line with other regionals in there network. Who knows what would've happened had they not jumped in to help bail US Airways out of Bankruptcy and secured there long term deal.
That Contract is about to end now and they'll be competing for more flying.
Horizon is now being asked to take cuts to compete with SkyWest.
Do I agree with it???? Hell no, but it's how it has been for a long time. Piedmont held the line for many years being one the of top paying Prop Airlines with one of the best contracts and an actual retirement plan. What did it get them???? Nothing but going from 100 planes down to know like 35 planes.
If anyone thinks the regionals can be a career stop like it was for many years you're wrong. Get your time, upgrade and get the hell out because it's all about cost and if you're at a senior heavy airline operating 50 seat planes you might be looking at many issues down the road.
The regionals will be something to watch over then next couple of years.

Hahahahahah lets see Horizon is now having to compete with SkyWest cost and SkyWest is also trying to get ASA (expressjets) cost down. hahahahah About the only one I'd say has been a good player in all this is AWAC .

It's called being senior enough to get the time off and watch NBA basketball while laughing at people like you. It's all good. :-)

Delta was and rumored to still be lined up to sign awac. American just re-signed up as well. There was even AirTran not that long ago really. Billy you're not that bright sometimes.

Pitch AAG didn't resign with AWAC they exercised an extension. Had Parker got what he wanted cost wise AWAC would've been locked in for more then just an extension. 2 years is perfect timing for PDT to get ramped up.
As for AirTran both partied ways when AirTran after just over a year, figured they could operate the 717 just about at the Cost of having AWAC.

Delta deal I don't know what happened there. But I bet you guys were only in line had you got a contract done. Like I said it's all about cost when it comes to majors and there regional feed. If AWAC had 20 900's and Mesa had 20 900's and Mesa Operated there cheaper who's AAG going to sign???? It's that simple is all I'm saying. Now the 3 Wo'ed are in line with the cost of contract carriers and it's why AAG is beefing up PDT to fly in the NE.

No I'm not bright at all. :D

Okay back to the Laker/MIN game. later. Good luck with the 100,000 regional FO thingy.

Didn't read the entire thread, but pilots are under paid, especially at the regionals.