DUI and pilot career?
 

One of my students today was looking a little shook up. After a while he told me he got a DUI last night. I am under the impression that something like that is a death blow for an airline career. What should I tell this guy? Is it worth it for him to even keep training?

I've seen people with DUI's get airline jobs before. As long as you're honest with the airline and try not to cover it up.

Isnt there a problem flying to Canada and Mexico wit DUI?

I know lots of guys with DWI's (yes, some with more than two!) who have airline jobs. One guy got hired by a Major six months after getting it (yes he told them about it). It is NOT a career ender. But, it does not help you one bit.

Most people that I know who have them got them 5-10 years ago in college. The one that got hired by a major had not had a traffic violation, ever, until his little incident. I'm sure that helped a bit.

Tell him to go ahead and start the paperwork with Canada. From what a pinnacle guy told me, it takes something like 6 months and about $500 just to get them to let you into the country. You have to fill out some type of citizenship application, or something like that. I don't know about Mexico.

But all in all, if he was my student I would give him a speech with these main points:

1) Tell the FAA!! NOW!! You have to send a letter to OKC. A guy I knew who was CFI/II/MEI "forgot" to let them know. They took all of his licenses, literally, and a year later he still does not have them back.
2) From now on you drive like a frickin grandma. Slow and defensive. No tickets allowed ever again.
3) Don't drink. If you drink, don't drive, If you drive, don't be surprised when you are sitting in a cubical 9-5 because you can't fly anymore.
4) Tell him to go talk to a lawyer, explain everything, and see if he can get out of it. Are you in Florida? I remember seeing tons of "Got a DWI? Call me" billboards driving around. Tell him to call one of those worthless pos lawyers.

All in all it's not the end of the world, but he will have to strive to be the best. A lot of pilots drink like fish, so the interviewing pilot will most likely understand. It's the HR chick you have to worry about!

There is a lot of good info on this board and all of it is correct.

He does need to tell the FAA. They may have him do an abuse assesment. It may lead to treatment, it may not. Normally on the first one they will let you pass. Sometimes they don't. Fact is it is too late to talk about that. He needs to tell the FAA, and he needs to find a way to pleed it down.

A lot of the airlines now as if you have been convicted or charged. It is the end all be all. Fact is that he will have to tell them. I know on one individual who has had one or two in the past. He was hired by a major the first week that they started interviewing. You must remember that all airlines now have a program in place called HIMMS. It is between the company, faa and the unions. It is to get people with a problem fixed and back it the air. It does not mean that they understand it, it just means that they have a program to fix it. I know of at least three guys that have gotten jobs a airlines in the last month alone that had this happen. Tell him not to give up hope. He just needs to not be defensive about it, admit he made a mistake and tell them how he has learned from it. Everyone knows that we all make mistakes, the question is do we as individuals, know when we have.

Everyone is right, let the FAA know ASAP! Hire a lawyer, depending on his/her record, he may get the charge lowered to reckless driving or something to that effect. DUI is not a killer, but does not help. I'd defenitely encourage him/her to continue on with training though..... good luck.

PS AOPA has some good advise on this subject

hey, I just read that same article in the Feb issue of AOPA magazine. I think the gist of it was if you don't let them know when it happens, it does come back and bite you in the rear. that legal column is very informative btw.

Pretty irresponsable on his part if you ask me. No place in the cockpit for him.Just keep teaching and keep collecting $

Wow. So this is what it all boils down to. Hiring DUI and DWI pilots.

I bet you ASA loves them! Especially after their little incident in GRR with a pilot in a parking lot. Wonder how many DUI/DWI he had prior to getting hired?


It's one thing to drink like fish.

It's COMPLETELY another thing to be STUPID enough to get behind the wheel when you know you've had a few too many drinks. DUI, and even worse, DWI?! Yeah, sounds like the perfect airline pilot role model!


Call a f#$king cab, and don't get one of us sober people killed on the roads. Thank you!

You know, I agree with your message... but I think you should probably check your attitude. This goes back to the he who has not sinned cast the first stone. In all your years of being alive, have you ever driven after having a beer or two? Then you are just as guilty as my friend. Have you stopped driving after you drink? Then good, you are just as good as my friend. Except you were lucky enough to avoid fines and lengthy conversations about drinking during interviews.

I am not defending drunk driving by any means, but I do not think people who get one (1) should be tarred and feathered and hung for all to see. Now getting more than one, that's a bit of a problem.

Hopefully YOU or any of your love ones wont get struck by one.Then you will think different.

Sir,

Sorry if I came off harsh.


I come from an EXTREMELY conservative family. Alcohol was always shunned. Went to college and graduated in four years, I had several opportunities to drink, but turned them all down. I was always the designated driver :)


To this day, I have never even tasted beer/alcohol/rum/wine/etc.... and this is all by pure choice.

1)The guy in GRR did not get a DWI. 2) His charges were dropped 3) He was cleared by the FAA, the local authorities, and the company. He just has to grow up. From what I have seen he has. It was a mistake that is all.

We all know we think so clearly when we are smashed ;)~

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT...HOLD ON!

DO NOT RUSH OUT AND CONFESS TO THE FAA!

1) First go get a good DUI lawyer, try to get it killed or plead down.

2) Only if ACTUALLY convicted (EDIT: You probably have to report it if they suspend your license also) do you have to notify the FAA, and you have 60 days following the conviction to do so. You have to notify the FAA in two ways:
- Notify the FAA security folks within 60 days (see part 61)
- Report it on your next medical. IMPORTANT: If you happen to have a medical within 60 days, that does NOT count as notifying the FAA security folks, you have to do that seperately.

The FAA may want you to get evaluated for a substance abuse problem at he time of your next medical...this will invlove one or more Psychiatric types and will costs thousands of dollars.

The FAA will suspend/revoke your license for two or more DUI's within the same three year period.

That covers the FAA, now as far as getting hired down the road, these are the factors:

Factors In Your Favor:
- Only one DUI (non-collision)
- Few if any traffic tickets
- No criminal mischief
- Young (under age 25 when it happened)
- Time passed since event.

Factors Against You
- Multiple DUIs (Find a new career)
- Over age 30 (if you haven't learned by now, you never will)
- Multiple traffic tickets
- Recent tickets
- Criminal history

A student pilot needs to do a thorough self-evaluation and make a REALISTIC determination as to whether to continue commercial training...this is SERIOUS stuff, and will put you at a disadvantage in the hiring arena. Yeah, I know, everybody knows a space-shuttle captain who got selected by Nasa despite his 11 DUI's...but that was back in the day when real men were EXPECTED to get DUI's. You can probably/maybe get a job at a regional, but if hiring slows, the first resumes they toss are the DUI's. He will be taking a big risk with his time and money.

If he decides to continue with flying, he needs to be honest when the airlines ask "were you ever ARRESTED for anything"...regardless of conviction or plea-bargain status, you can never undo the arrest. Be prepared to succinctly explain what happened and what you learned from it...then shut up.

Canada, yes. you will be denied entry unless you obtain a special diplomatic waiver. It's a nuisance even after you get the waiver. Every time he enters, that crewmember has to go into a room and get quizzed by the customs heavies, while the rest of us stand around and wish we could go to the hotel already :mad:

Some airlines that go into Canada will not hire anyone with DUI (or any other conviction) for this reason...if they train the person and then find out that Canada will not issue him a waiver, everybody's SOL.

I think folks who get even one DUI get what they deserve. HOWEVER...I think the standards for a DUI are ridiculous... .08 is not significantly impaired, I can drive FAR better at .08 than some sober chick in an SUV who's doing her makeup, talking on her cell phone, and weaving in and out of traffic with that left rear 25 psi low... :mad: You ought to be able to have 2-3 beers or wine over a long dinner and still drive home legally.

Maybe it ought to be legal up to .10, then maybe mandatory councilling for .11-.12 But if you drive totally obliterated, go directly to jail, for at least a year.

And for those of you who don't drink that's great, but please don't ******* with those of us who do :mad:

this is the most useless piece of information. We all make mistakes, "majors" hire all kinds of people, and I wouldnt worry about that now with this age 65 thing its going to be a very very long time before he get the chance to "explain" anything to a the HR dept at a major

I have met one person in my life who is like you. Needless to say, you are rare. Most of us paid our toilet dues in college and have learned from it. I personally only drink (now that I'm older and more mature) on very very special occasions, when driving is not an option. Then I'm kicking myself in the morning for feeling like death. But, unfortunately lots of people drink more than this.

To the person who commented on being struck by a drunk driver. I understand your logic completely. I will never stand up for a drunk driver involved in an accident, or a person who has had more than 1 dwi.

My point was simply that we have all made mistakes in our lives. If each one of them was discussed in an interview, none of us would get hired.

RickAir, good post.

All good points!

I can understand making one DUI mistake. But ***multiple*** (like three or more) DUI/DWI offenses I think shows clear lack of maturity and judgement, and then you should not belong in an airline cockpit.

I think the legal limit is fine where it is. Personally, the rule I follow.. If i drink..even if I sip on a beer..I wont drive. Even 2-3 beers can impair driving ability. You really need be 100 percent when you drive, otherwise you put urself and other peoples lives at risk. Not really worth 2 - 3 beers over dinner in my opinion.

"Only if ACTUALLY convicted do you have to notify the FAA"

Rick. Most of the time I agree with you but this is incorrect.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...i/airman_faqs/

You have to report an administrative action. In my state, that's what happens when you get arrested for DUI.

The arrest is not an administrative action if nothing comes of it or if it gets reduced to non-DUI violation...if they suspend your DL after the arrest but before the trial (some states do this) that would count I think.

I'd probably call AOPA and see what they have to say.

;) Saab. We finally agree on something!!:D One mistake. My God, give a man break. This country is going to the socialistic side so fast it's making me sick. I agree if you hurt someone in an accident and you are at fault...you pay for it. Prison, fines, whatever is appropriate. People kill people in cars being stupid and not drunk. Shouldn't they have to tell the airlines they had a fatal crash...rhetorical. My answer is no. The man got a DWI. He will pay for it. It was stupid and a mistake and I am sure he will never make it again. However, he did NOT wreck, hurt or kill anyone. Should I be convicted of murder if I carry an illegal gun even if I don't shoot anybody? Good luck. Quit drinking and driving and life will be fine.

'

Make sure he talks to a very good lawyer that specializes in this to minimize the impact on him and his career. These things can get bargained down so he may not have any convictions.

I'll second that - our country is still innocent until proven guilty. I'm not defending that this guy got pulled over and written a ticket - that doesn't mean he actually has something that he is convicted of. Until he has gone to trial and actually been assigned some kind of conviction he has nothing to report. He should get proper legal representation and face the music.

Your student may not be around much if he's tight on cash. Now a days the Fines and then the fees to get your license back can get up into the thousands of dollars. I know people who had to fight beyond the mandatory period of revocation, I mean years in one case to their license back. It doesn't just end with fines and your license taken away, now a days it much more goes into it. Not to mention what its gonna do car insurance premiums, that is if they don't drop you all together! I would say, as far as he is in his career there are some other things needs to worry about as well, first.

Tell him it is a blessing in disguise, Airlines wont want him, especially becuase it is going to be impossible to move up to anything bigger than a 70 seat jet becuase the old miserable basta*ds will be here until their 65 and their isnt going to be any airline jobs..............except for scum ones like MESA & GOJETS.

Don't forget guys managment will start to lower wages becuase, "well now you can work until your 65" This is going to be worse than 9/11 im tellin ya

As long as it's not a repeated thing then he should worry too much about it. And as long as he is honest when he goes for an interview then he'll be fine.

You are a social retard. An argument could be made that you are so far out of the main stream that you should never be allowed to pilot an airplane.

I would not want you flying my family around.

I love it, absolutely brilliant, I agree I mean I am DD when I have to be but I have been known to suck down a few Vodka Tonics, every now and then. Life is too short, besides if you don't drink in this industry, you will have a mental breakdown

I hope that was sarcasm. My manager has an engineering degree in aviation and a Masters in Business. He has never tried any alcohol or drugs. He is loved by everyone who works for him and throws parties 4 times a year at his house. Hiw wife is Irish and drinks for both of them. I once new a born again Cristian who told me in an emergency he would let God take over the aircraft. I would not want him flying my family around.

Along with the drinking there are a few who smoke too.

haah Almost forget

WTF?! I hope it was a sarcastic comment (although not funny), because otherwise it would be the most retarded post I've read here.

WTF? Are you serious? What part of what I said is retarded? Sure, it would be if I was criticizing him for not drinking. I'm not. I'm criticizing him for NEVER having TASTED any alcohol product. That is not normal. I don't trust anyone who is so hamstrung by dogma.

You need to read more of this forum and you will find many more retarded posts.

Had a friend get a "DUI"...he never blew so he went directly to jail, license suspended for the requisite year, blah blah blah. First thing he did the next day (when we bailed him out) was get a lawyer. Lawyer did "something" and he went to some classes, did some community service, bummed rides for a year and got hired on at XJT. Turns out that refusing to take the breathalyzer was the smarttest thing he ever did. I went to his initial meeting with the lawyer and was impressed. Apparently you cannot find the term "DUI" anywhere on his record. Tell the guy to stop drinking and driving and find a good lawyer.

Everyone makes mistakes. I do not condone D&D but it happens. Learn from it and move on. He was lucky he didn't kill anyone. That thought alone keeps most people from doing it.

have you ever tested to find out how much it takes to get to .08BAC?

my wife's coworker (she's a prosecutor) did what is called a wet lab where you basically drink and blow into a Breathalizer every hour or so. it took him over 14 beers to reach the .08BAC. he knew far before he reached the legal limit that he should be nowhere near a moving vehicle.

are you saying that you can drink a 12-pack in short order and still be good to drive a vehicle, or control something in 3 dimensions that's moving 320kts?

it's people like you that make responsible drinkers shake their heads in shame.

Tell your wife's coworker to try using Budweiser or Coors instead of O'Douls. 14 beers to reach .08? You're really not that gullible, are you?

tell him to apply at Cape Air, they'll hire him.

other than that wait 5 years, he should be good to go.
I've heard that to fly in Canada it's 10 years, but I may be wrong on that.

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. Try doing some real research before posting second hand bullsh*t.

The CONSERVATIVE view is that 1 drink (1 beer, 1 glass of wine, 1 shot of something) equals .02 in your blood stream. Your body will process (pis*) .02 per hour. So, in one hour that is 4 drinks to get .08. If you pis* at the end of the hour, in theory you have .06. Play with the figures.

If you drank anything for 14 hours straight you would be unconscious and puking your brains out all over the nurse in the ER. Your BAC would be off the charts, .2+

http://www.lcb.state.pa.us/plcb/lib/plcb/alcoholed/bac_(male)3.jpg
http://www.drinkfocus.com/images/Han...n_bacChart.gif
http://healthyhorns.utexas.edu/education/bac.html
http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html