Street Captain Regionals
 

I was recently told about the possibility of "Street Captains" and was wondering if anyone knows which companies are currently looking to hire straight to a captain position. I am currently out of the military and have a total of about 1600 hours and am getting my ATP. I have about 600 Turbine PIC hours. I would also appreciate a brief opinion on the quality of life/pay at that airline if you have any more knowledge on that company.

Thank you all for your help.

I'll just say you don't have the qualifications to be a street hire captain. Not even close

Street CA's
 

Not to burst your bubble - but you have to have 1,000 121 time to be a 121 CA.

If I'm not mistaken the requirement to be a 121 Captain is 1000 hours of 121 time and the FAA will count up to 500 hours of your military time toward that 1000 but no more. That being said you would need to log 500 hours at a 121 outfit prior to being eligible for upgrade. So the question should probably change from "who is hiring street captains" to "where can I log 500 hours the fastest and then be eligible for upgrade?"

There are a few places offering what you are looking for.

1600 hours and no ATP, and you are ready to jump in the left seat.
I want some of that stuff you are smoking.

So far I appreciate the professional and respectful comments. Where are the places I can look at that will get me those 500 hours quickest and hopefully a decent company to fly for?

Where do you live? Are you willing to move? The best QOL move you can make is to live in base.

I currently live in Annapolis, MD. I would be willing to move however I would hope to find a base somewhere in the mid-atlantic to northeast region.

Understandably the commute would be a negative impact on quality of life but what would the schedule look like (understanding company dependent but is there a regional average)?

A lot of us coming from the military really don't know quite how the civilian aviation world works. Part of that stems from lack of exposure- unless you're in a guard unit, a lot mil pilots haven't gotten a lot of exposure to airline pilots during the dark ages of hiring, where until recently most of the people we knew were staying in to retire, or going into non-flying gigs.

I only started to have friends flying for various airlines in the last 24 months. Beforehand my only exposure to 121 pilots were the old reservist who'd randomly show up to my squadron, scare the **** of me during hot seat night contact requal flights in order to fly with students under the hood to go get a burrito and not really have a lot to say when asked how they liked life at their company, but were really looking forward to retirement.

Most former military make poor FO's for the first year or two. It is a steep learning curve.

Check PMs....

The search function is your friend. As is doing research. Asking questions on an anonymous web board isn't doing your research any more than looking at Facebook is.

This website has wonderful amounts of basic information without resorting to the forums. Use it. Do your basic research. The airline profiles on this website are a great place to start. Use the search function. Then ask directed questions.

Air Force? I am a regional guy and I also fly the C130 in the Air Guard. You should fly as an FO for at least a year or 2 prior to upgrading in he 121 world even if you are given the opportunity. That would be like going from UPT straight to Aircraft Commander of a heavy. You're just not ready.

I think you were told wrong those 500 hours of PIC in the military won't go towards your time to upgrade . You need 1000 hours of 121 time to upgrade. So you might be starting from scratch in that department. You won't have the time to upgrade at an airline for at least a year and a half, maybe two .Being optimistic . But look at PSA Piedmont or Commutair if you are on the east coast . Skywest or Compass if you are on the west

This ^^

Reminds me of the mil bug eyed newhire UAL jumpseater I had a few weeks ago....

Such questions as "What is ramp control?"
"I don't understand how you fly this (RNAV) arrival."

I've flown with quite a few military guys new to 121 and all do a decent job as long as they don't let their ego get in their way. That being said, I've seen a few of the "high and mighty" ones humbled trying to read-back or even understand taxi instructions in Chicago. It's a little more complicated than "taxi to the runway via alpha."

I can appreciate and am accustomed to steep learning curves. What are some of the common struggles from former military you see that makes a poor FO in your mind? Do you know what their platform/service was? Are there any trends?

Thank you for your help.

Thank you for your input and feedback. A hiring director of 10 years with the majors recommended asking the question on here as part of my research. I appreciate all of the helpful comments to that end.

Thank you Dubz.

Most have a really hard time being second-in-command to 24 year olds (or anyone younger than them or deemed as someone they should outrank). Many of the ones I've flown with that ended their career flying a desk also have very rusty stick skills and don't seem too concerned about hearing feedback from someone that didn't spend 20 years flying a Viper or a Buff. If they were in charge of a unit before they left, they really don't like me telling them what to do and how to do it.

Even though many of these Captains may be young, they could have several thousand hours flying commercial jet aircraft as both an FO and a Captain. You may be a Major or Commander, but that doesn't mean you can't learn from the "lesser" side of aviation.

These are mostly just the negative things I've found. Most military pilots are consummate professionals, quick learners, and skilled aviators. Unfortunately, it's the ones who can't seem to check their egos at the door that stand out the most and give all military pilots a bad name.

It's regrettable to hear the negative points you are talking about but I have seen the same and understand your comments. I appreciate it's just a 'different' type of flying. I'm starting up as an ATP/MEI instructor next month for when I'm not flying in the reserves to keep my stick skills and currency. I don't have a problem with learning from anyone younger. So of course besides the negative personality traits and rusty stick skills what are key areas of focus that are deficient?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twisted mind (Post 2029977)

Most former military make poor FO's for the first year or two. It is a steep learning curve.

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A year or two to figure out this gig? :rolleyes: You must have been dealing with some of the 10% idiots in every facet of society.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prior121 (Post 2029999)

This ^^

Reminds me of the mil bug eyed newhire UAL jumpseater I had a few weeks ago....

Such questions as "What is ramp control?"
"I don't understand how you fly this (RNAV) arrival."

---

A new hire on the jumpseat asking questions. Isn’t that usually a good way to get information? Since they don’t do either ramp control or RNAV arrivals in many of the aircraft operated by the military, did you really expect a new hire out of the military to know about such things?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 2030014)

Most military pilots are consummate professionals, quick learners, and skilled aviators. Unfortunately, it's the ones who can't seem to check their egos at the door that stand out the most and give all military pilots a bad name.

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You make negative blanket statements about mil pilots using “most” and “many” and then you end up saying most are just fine. Which is it? If most prior mil pilots are “consummate professionals”, etc. then why would you let the few bad apples with ego issues sway your opinion to “give all military pilots a bad name”? If you’re able to recognize that most aren’t part of the problem, why do you feel it’s necessary to malign them all because of a few?

Actually, that isn't 100% true. There are types of both 91(k) and 135 PIC time that count towards 121 upgrade as well.

Well I'll say the former military guys doing IOE have been both some of the most professional guys I've flown with. All have been respectful and asked questions when it wasn't clear what was going. Age has never been an issue and I'm significantly younger than a number of the people I fly with.

I don't know about upgrade times but Im not sure why people have been talking about attitude problems. The worst I've seen is guys being unfimilar with the environment they are working in. All ex military have quickly adapted. Often times faster than there counterparts from other backgrounds.

Hey big daddy,

It is unlikely you will be in a position to upgrade within 2 years, even with your military experience. Although that is entirely dependent on the person-many are better than others and I won't assume you aren't....

The biggest struggle for military pilots is usually a combination of two crew and automation. Depending on what you were doing, a lot of mil guys are very used to grabbing the stick with one hand, the throttle with the other and giving her full juice from start to finish. That's just not the way it works in the airline world and there are some very different factors to consider (FAs, pax, etc).

I caution you about chasing an upgrade but of course that is your goal. I would recommend you get hired with someone with an east coast base (PSA maybe? does Mesa have an IAD base still?) and work your butt off. Study everything you can and learn from every captain you can so that when that upgrade time DOES come, which may be faster than everyone else says, you'll be ready.

Also, ignore all the people telling you to use the search function. You could be the first poster here in the history of this web site and you'd still have a bunch of people going "use the search!!!" No one has 4 days to filter through all the whiny garbage and useless crap anyway...

Good luck

Yet they are first choice for the majors.

Exactly. I've flown with military guys and they literally fly that right seat single pilot. You can tell a thousand things are going on in their brain they just can't do them because it's not single pilot anymore, it's a crew environment. Just take a deep breath and let the airline operation happen instead of you trying to make it happen. If that makes any sense.

I'm going to go ahead and make the bold statement that legacy airlines are probably smarter than your average collection of internet forum posters.

Of the ones that struggle, those are usually what the problems are. They don't sway my opinion but because they are so easily identifiable, it's easy to attach a stigma the same way you would to a Purdue or Riddle grad. I don't judge them but many are quick to and I'm just relaying some of the major areas that cause them problems.

Go to the regional with the fastest upgrade time. Fly your arse off for the next 2 years, pay attention and study hard, and then you will be ready.

There arr no shortcuts...

As a soon to be former mil with a class date early next year, I'm curious about this comment. Are you saying this as a former mil yourself? I understand all the comments about SRM vs. CRM, attitude, age, etc., but steep learning curve as compared to what? I can't speak for all mil programs, but I wager most students are learning fairly advanced aircraft while also learning all the airmanship knowledge that comes with being an aviator. 121 you should have 1/2 of that pretty well locked, right..?

His statement is a bit exaggerated. The biggest learning curve issues I've seen are the quick time frame to go from entering an aircraft to departing and a lot of radio issues in congested areas. Some of the older pilots both of age and of airplane struggle with automation management. It's nothing that can't be resolved in 6 months of line flying.

Hopefully your class is with a major airline. Go over to the major section of this forum and you'll find it's pretty rare to stumble on to a thread with these kinds of stupid blanket statements about mil guys.

That's because most guys coming out of the military have some common sense and apply it. If they've been flying single seat, they realize the crew coordination is going to be different. Since they still had crew coordination between aircraft and were highly reliant on that both during mission planning and actual flying, they usually adapt very well. Also, since the military operates a ton of crew aircraft, some pilots come out of the service quite familiar with a 2 or more person crew.

Finally, since most military guys bypass the regionals completely, the small number that these regional guys end up working with may be either problem children that couldn't get a recommendation or arrive with a chip on their shoulder. Either way, they're the exception to the rule, though you wouldn't think so listening to these guys. My guess is for every military guy who shows up and fulfills these bad stereotypes, there's an insecure civilian pilot whose looking for problems where there aren't, possibly washed out or never had a chance at a mil spot and is just happy to have a chance to criticize or validate himself. Most won't be that way, of course.

There are some new things to learn about company procedures and large civilian airports, new regs that now apply plus of course, the aircraft you're assigned to. Steep learning curve is all a matter of opinion, but it's not rocket science and not an issue for most guys who apply themselves. It's definitely easier than any military training you've done. So, you show up ready to learn and apply the same work ethic you have so far in your career. Keep an open mind, seek and take advice and be a team player. If you do that, things will work themselves out (even if you've never talked to ramp control or flown an RNAV arrival :rolleyes:). Good luck.

To parse through some of the bovine scatology of what's going here, I'll interject this;

There's really ONLY ONE TREND, it's someone that can't simply check their ego, show up ready to learn, and do a good job.

It's NOT a mil/platform/service vs. civ thing, AT ALL.

It DOESNT matter if it was a "f-teen bro" or a "tanker bubba". It DOESNT matter if it's a former corporate guy, 135 guy, single engine freight guy, or whatever demographic you can think of. NO ONE wants to hear the pilot lament about "ya know, back in the Lear/Cheifton/freight/corporate/C-one/F-teen/super/mega/stealth/hawk/D-model squadron it was like this blah blah blah......" as they're screwing up a radio call, checklist, visual approach, or whatever. And sadly, when you get hired at a legacy, LCC, SLF company, whatever, it'll be THE SAME.

Worst case;

I remember having 20 something year old FO's go on and on about how he doesn't need to upgrade, because his buddy got hired at (legacy airline) with only a few thousand hours and he thinks he will too. Maybe he will. I ALSO remember flying with a mid 30's-mid 40's fresh off the military's rectum guy going on and on about how it's a slap in the face that he's at a regional, all his "bros" are at (insert airline) and he should be too. It swings BOTH WAYS.

At least I knew I'd be saving money on the trip. LAST pilot I'm gonna be buying beer/coffee for as I slam-click.

And to interject another point. You've had the BEST training in the world, there's NO DOUBT. But I'm sorry, you're simply not experienced enough in the 121 world to be a CA right out of the gate. Doesn't matter if it was at a regional flying the pretend Barbie Jet with only 50 of a legacy's customers on it or a 777 with over 300 of the legacy's on it. That may be hard to hear, but coming up on 20 years in this game, that's JUST THE TRUTH.

As far as your q's about quality of life, etc, it's all been covered and beat to death adnauseum over the various regionals.

Try to find the one with the quickest upgrade, where you won't have to commute, etc. if you hear of one that has "staffing issues/problems", that just means you'll get to fly a lot. And usually upgrade quicker.

And MOST IMPORTANTLY, start networking your rear end off, NOW!!!!!

If you haven't already.

JC is on point^^

Plenty of new hire Flight Instructor idiots as well as military guys. The difference between mil and instructors? Mils usually figure it out, instructors tend to wash out.

As time goes on, you're likely going to see more military guys flying in the regionals thanks to increased service commitment time, and career diversification tours taking many of them out of the cockpits for their final 2-3 years of service. This has been a big trend with Navy Maritime pilots lately, and some of the AF Heavy crowd.

I haven't seen the numbers, so it's all just hypothalating and speculization ;)

But I think a lot of mil pilots are being soaked up, with less and less readily available. Check out the UAL and DAL threads. Guys that have filled out the app but have separation/available dates 1-2 years out are getting emails that basically say "when you are working 6 months of separation PLEASE contact us".

The legacies have ALWAYS valued military. What I'm getting at is, a loosening or relaxing on currency requirements for mil pilots. COMPARED TO NOW.

Besides, reading this board (and others) you'll see some mil guys getting picked up with less than (insert specific legacy's publicly announced at a job fair hours in the last year by the HMFIC of hiring here).

I really appreciate the replies. You can see by my join date vs. post count that I'm a bit hesitant to post on this type of forum. That comment just intrigued me as a soon to be 121 student. Definitely a lot of new aspects to learn in the 121 world and I look forward to it.

Class is with a regional. The majority of my flying was on the helo side, so I'm very happy to have the opportunity to enter the 121 world regardless of where I begin.

Good and bad aspects to everything I've done in my life thus far... I'm excited to begin and start learning the ropes.