Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 2059573)

1. This job is unfair to a family and kids. I would feel horrible if I had kids and don't know how people justify it. You will miss out on virtually everything for all the many years you are a Junior regional FO, a Junior regional CA, then all over again for years as a junior pilot at a larger carrier. Birthdays, Holidays, Family events, important kids activities, weekend activities with friends, you will be gone in a hotel. Get use to things like all your family visiting your house on Christmas or Thanksgiving and you are stuck in a crappy hotel in middle of nowherville Kansas. Or all your friends getting together for a fun event or BBQ on the weekend but you can't go.. Over time they just stop asking because you are never there. This job has destroyed countless relationships. Some people make it work, MANY don't last. I see it constantly over the years. It's sad.

2. 3 on 4 off schedule isn't realistic and isn't happening for a long time.. then it will go away again as you progress upwards and are junior again in a different seat.. this cycle will continue many times as you move up in this career. The further you get up the ladder, the longer those years you will wait are.. Regional FO seniority moves fairly quickly, as there is a lot of turnover and movement, regional CA is a lot slower, and so on.. The trend with staffing getting worse and worse is having us work MORE days, not less.. unfortunately. This is only going to get worse with looming retirements. Plan 4-6 days on, 2-3 off. Commuting and reserve will make it even less.

3. Honestly.. I think this job is boring and I would trade it for an office job to be home every day and not waste my life away in airports and hotels. Some people are die hard and just love it, you fly with those people every now and then, they are the one's who read aviation magazines, play flight sim in the hotel, build RC planes, take picture of planes at the airport still.. most of us aren't that way, at least not anymore. Most of us just show up, try to get the shortest trip possible and just think about getting home ASAP. Doing this everyday sucks all the fun out of it in a hurry, trust me. You don't even really fly anymore at this level to be honest. Autopilot is on 98% of the time, and you punch buttons on the FMS or flight guidance panel when ATC tells you to do something. That's it. Every now and then you see something cool, or get to do something interesting or fun like flying low around NYC or DC to do their visual approaches.. but for the most part it's very dull and incredibly boring IMO, and there is a lot of crap and BS to deal with on the ground. As a captain you are responsible for everything and you get blamed for everything too if anything ever goes wrong. Flying is the easy part, being on the ground and dealing with all that is the crappy stressful part. Coordinating everything, paperwork nightmares, getting everyone else to simply do their jobs is a never ending challenge.. which most of this you DON'T EVEN GET PAID FOR. Since 90% of this BS is always happening with the main door open, you aren't even on the clock getting paid. Delays too, hours and hours you sit there losing out on time off, for free. Then really hope you don't miss your last commute flight home that day because of it, (happens all the time).. that will cost you a precious day off, unpaid.

The hard part about leaving this career after so much time and money invested into it is replacing the legacy level income with another regular job.. I think that is one of the only reasons a lot of people don't leave from everyone I know. Which as a new person starting out, it will take you a long time living at terrible wages to get too anyway, if you ever get there. I'm over a decade invested in regionals and still stuck here, and not for lack of trying. Thousands and thousands are in the exact same position. Things change rapidly and are very cyclical in this industry and you never know what will happen. Age 65, oil prices and 9/11 wrecked this industry in a heartbeat for many of us at the regionals currently. All of us here at the time paid the price getting stuck at horrible low wages as a regional FO forever, furloughed, or had to start over at the bottom multiple times. Then there is the constant shifting around of regional flying and people undercutting one another and stepping on each other to try to get ahead at your expense. One day your regional will be "the" place to be, the next day the bottom feeders of the industry with the worst contract is taking all your flying, and you move backwards, then that cycle continues on and on.. Is it worth it just to do this? I would say definitely not. Things are trending in a positive direction right now but could go in the toilet in a second with one big terrorist attack, oil spike or any number of things. No way in hell I would start over in this industry again if I had a good job with plenty of family time. Fly for fun if you enjoy it. Not because you have too.

It's funny, for every person that wants to do this, there is a person sitting in a hotel that wishes they just had a normal well paying 9-5 again. BTW I am typing this from a Hotel, wishing I was home having fun with friends and family on a Saturday night.. Instead I will be getting up at 0345 AM for a 16 hour day tomorrow with a 2.5 hour commute. Think about that..

4. Live in base if at all possible. It is a drastic difference in quality of life and basically mandatory if you care about your family time, stress levels and sanity. Commuting is a nightmare, it's extremely stressful and wastes an enormous amount of your life. Last week every flight I showed up at to get home on had 4-5 other jumpseaters each flight and was overbooked. You are tired, you just want to get home after a 10-12 hour day, but you can't just go home like a normal person. It's wait 2 hours for the next flight, try again.. same thing, more jumpseaters, full flight, try again in another 3 hours, on and on.. finally I took a high risk of getting stranded 2 leg 5.5 hour commute through another hub city to get home at 2am after 21 hours that day. This is not uncommon. It happens all the time. Commuting SUCKS and takes years off your life. Saying that about living in base, I HAVE moved to base 3 times to end this nightmare, and had my base closed on me and moved each time. This regional industry is HIGHLY unstable if you haven't grasped that yet. The Majors aren't much better. Bases close or shift around even at the Legacy level. So.. hope you don't like making long term living arangement plans.. this job will likely ruin them. FYI.

It's easy to dismiss all this stuff as a newbie looking in and just see fun, excitement and Delta, UAL, AA pay rates. Everyone does. I did too. Then you live it for 5-10+ years and that all goes away when reality sets in somewhere between your $800 paychecks, lack of sleep, crap hotel in podunk Indiana, and waiting around all day staring out the windows of an airport on 4th of July weekend wishing you could just go home and have a good time with your friends and family like everyone else does.

Originally Posted by CAirBear (Post 2059675)

Ryan - Who do you work for? 10 years you have said? Wow. I've been a regional FO, who commutes, for the past 2.5 years. I've not made it home or to work 1 time in that time frame. Vast majority of trips are commutable both ends. Obviously not all regionals are equal, but damn. Very hard to
believe your QOL is that bad.

Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 2059854)

American Eagle when I got hired.. Now Turned into Envoy. When I was at your seniority level everything was fine here too.. And it wasn't bad, things were moving and we had good schedules, lots of days off, one of the best contracts. Eagle use to be one of, if not "the" top regionals to work for.. Along with Expressjet and Comair. Look At those companies now.

Then age 65 happened. Then the economy tanked. Then Bankruptcy at AA, Then the USAir/AA merger nightmare really wrecked this place when USair management Got their hands on things. We have closed 5 of 7 bases. Lost half our fleet to outsourcing to the lowest bidder, and nearly 1500 pilots worth of flying.

When I started the Mesa, PSA, type of places were absolutely horrible and NOBODY wanted to work there, you went there only if you couldnt get hired anywhere else or maybe lived in domicile. Look how things change.. Now people trip over themselves to go there. Places like Compass didn't even exist yet. Gojet was right in the middle of starting up to screw over Trans States Pilots..

What I am getting at is this regional industry is constantly shifting things around. Just because you are at a place you think it good now, doesnt mean it will be when the next round of undercutting, recycling pilots to first year pay all over again comes around. Look at history, this keeps happening over and over again.

As for commuting, depends where you commute from. If you commute to/from major hub cities and popular resort/vacation destinations that have hundreds of commuters, like I do.. Commuting is a nightmare. If you commute from smalltown USA to a hub on your own regional airline, that is never full, it will obviously be easier.

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 2059724)

You honestly should quit. It's honestly not that bad but if you feel it is, it's time to go.

Originally Posted by Mike5250 (Post 2060230)

What has kept you from getting a job at a local airport flying charter, or doing something different? I'm in a similar position to the OP, 10 years younger, similar goals. Not trying to start a battle, just want to know if you considered. My backup plan is to fly charter or part 91 if the lifestyle doesn't work out. Nice to hear your opinions with no sugar coating!!

Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 2060672)

Lack of pay and being on call most jobs. Plus everyone I know on that side seems to be looking for a new job every few years. The corporate side is highly unstable. Even more so than regionals. Anytime there is budget or financial issues the flight department is the first to make cuts.

I worked on call before this in another field and never will I subject myself to that life again. Pack your stuff and leave for 3 days, end up gone for 40. As bad as the regionals are, being on call all the time is worse IMO. You can't hardly plan anything ever. Of course everyone hears of those dream jobs out there that are amazing.. But they are few and far between. Good luck getting one if you don't know people there..

Some Charter and 91 "might" pay better than some regional FO's at first. Not many charter guys make what I even make as a regional CA unless they are in a large cabin jet like a GV or something and those jobs are very hard to get anyway and require lots of time in type. Then VERY Few 91/135s will ever even come anywhere near Legacy pay levels. Even Legacy FO pay levels..

If I am subjecting myself to this lifestyle for the rest of my career I want to be compensated at least 150K/yr plus benefits to do so.. On That side of the fence outside of 121, that kind of pay is rare.

The good jobs "to me" on that side, would be something in like a king air where you do short trips and are home everyday.. But the pay just isn't nearly enough IMO. You basically have to fly large cabin jets Corporate to make "good" money and they are gone A LOT. "The bigger the jet the bigger the suitcase." I have a friend that flew a Global Express and would be gone for weeks at a time to less than desirable places out of country.

Other people may feel different.. And everyone has different financial needs/goals. But thats why I haven't gone to that side.