Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 2059573)

1. This job is unfair to a family and kids. I would feel horrible if I had kids and don't know how people justify it. You will miss out on virtually everything for all the many years you are a Junior regional FO, a Junior regional CA, then all over again for years as a junior pilot at a larger carrier. Birthdays, Holidays, Family events, important kids activities, weekend activities with friends, you will be gone in a hotel. Get use to things like all your family visiting your house on Christmas or Thanksgiving and you are stuck in a crappy hotel in middle of nowherville Kansas. Or all your friends getting together for a fun event or BBQ on the weekend but you can't go.. Over time they just stop asking because you are never there. This job has destroyed countless relationships. Some people make it work, MANY don't last. I see it constantly over the years. It's sad.

2. 3 on 4 off schedule isn't realistic and isn't happening for a long time.. then it will go away again as you progress upwards and are junior again in a different seat.. this cycle will continue many times as you move up in this career. The further you get up the ladder, the longer those years you will wait are.. Regional FO seniority moves fairly quickly, as there is a lot of turnover and movement, regional CA is a lot slower, and so on.. The trend with staffing getting worse and worse is having us work MORE days, not less.. unfortunately. This is only going to get worse with looming retirements. Plan 4-6 days on, 2-3 off. Commuting and reserve will make it even less.

3. Honestly.. I think this job is boring and I would trade it for an office job to be home every day and not waste my life away in airports and hotels. Some people are die hard and just love it, you fly with those people every now and then, they are the one's who read aviation magazines, play flight sim in the hotel, build RC planes, take picture of planes at the airport still.. most of us aren't that way, at least not anymore. Most of us just show up, try to get the shortest trip possible and just think about getting home ASAP. Doing this everyday sucks all the fun out of it in a hurry, trust me. You don't even really fly anymore at this level to be honest. Autopilot is on 98% of the time, and you punch buttons on the FMS or flight guidance panel when ATC tells you to do something. That's it. Every now and then you see something cool, or get to do something interesting or fun like flying low around NYC or DC to do their visual approaches.. but for the most part it's very dull and incredibly boring IMO, and there is a lot of crap and BS to deal with on the ground. As a captain you are responsible for everything and you get blamed for everything too if anything ever goes wrong. Flying is the easy part, being on the ground and dealing with all that is the crappy stressful part. Coordinating everything, paperwork nightmares, getting everyone else to simply do their jobs is a never ending challenge.. which most of this you DON'T EVEN GET PAID FOR. Since 90% of this BS is always happening with the main door open, you aren't even on the clock getting paid. Delays too, hours and hours you sit there losing out on time off, for free. Then really hope you don't miss your last commute flight home that day because of it, (happens all the time).. that will cost you a precious day off, unpaid.

The hard part about leaving this career after so much time and money invested into it is replacing the legacy level income with another regular job.. I think that is one of the only reasons a lot of people don't leave from everyone I know. Which as a new person starting out, it will take you a long time living at terrible wages to get too anyway, if you ever get there. I'm over a decade invested in regionals and still stuck here, and not for lack of trying. Thousands and thousands are in the exact same position. Things change rapidly and are very cyclical in this industry and you never know what will happen. Age 65, oil prices and 9/11 wrecked this industry in a heartbeat for many of us at the regionals currently. All of us here at the time paid the price getting stuck at horrible low wages as a regional FO forever, furloughed, or had to start over at the bottom multiple times. Then there is the constant shifting around of regional flying and people undercutting one another and stepping on each other to try to get ahead at your expense. One day your regional will be "the" place to be, the next day the bottom feeders of the industry with the worst contract is taking all your flying, and you move backwards, then that cycle continues on and on.. Is it worth it just to do this? I would say definitely not. Things are trending in a positive direction right now but could go in the toilet in a second with one big terrorist attack, oil spike or any number of things. No way in hell I would start over in this industry again if I had a good job with plenty of family time. Fly for fun if you enjoy it. Not because you have too.

It's funny, for every person that wants to do this, there is a person sitting in a hotel that wishes they just had a normal well paying 9-5 again. BTW I am typing this from a Hotel, wishing I was home having fun with friends and family on a Saturday night.. Instead I will be getting up at 0345 AM for a 16 hour day tomorrow with a 2.5 hour commute. Think about that..

4. Live in base if at all possible. It is a drastic difference in quality of life and basically mandatory if you care about your family time, stress levels and sanity. Commuting is a nightmare, it's extremely stressful and wastes an enormous amount of your life. Last week every flight I showed up at to get home on had 4-5 other jumpseaters each flight and was overbooked. You are tired, you just want to get home after a 10-12 hour day, but you can't just go home like a normal person. It's wait 2 hours for the next flight, try again.. same thing, more jumpseaters, full flight, try again in another 3 hours, on and on.. finally I took a high risk of getting stranded 2 leg 5.5 hour commute through another hub city to get home at 2am after 21 hours that day. This is not uncommon. It happens all the time. Commuting SUCKS and takes years off your life. Saying that about living in base, I HAVE moved to base 3 times to end this nightmare, and had my base closed on me and moved each time. This regional industry is HIGHLY unstable if you haven't grasped that yet. The Majors aren't much better. Bases close or shift around even at the Legacy level. So.. hope you don't like making long term living arangement plans.. this job will likely ruin them. FYI.

It's easy to dismiss all this stuff as a newbie looking in and just see fun, excitement and Delta, UAL, AA pay rates. Everyone does. I did too. Then you live it for 5-10+ years and that all goes away when reality sets in somewhere between your $800 paychecks, lack of sleep, crap hotel in podunk Indiana, and waiting around all day staring out the windows of an airport on 4th of July weekend wishing you could just go home and have a good time with your friends and family like everyone else does.

Originally Posted by Fourpaw (Post 2188490)

It's not that bad. Some people will make the worst out of anything. I'm raising a family of four, At the age of 28 single family income, And we are happy as can be. Great money and time off. Life gives you the hand you are supposed to be delt. Unfortunately, it's not equal for everyone.

Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom (Post 2188903)

Ask your kids in 5 years, how they like it.....
Or they might prefer you gone.......

Originally Posted by Fourpaw (Post 2188909)

Okay I'll pm you in five years with their answers. My kids are 4 and 6 and grew up with me being a pilot...it's all they know. They love airplanes and flying and love it when we travel places, about once a month or so depending on the schedule that month.

I used to take then with me when I did corporate. My wife also supports my job and doesn't bad mouth me and my profession when I'm gone. As I said, all in how you look at it...half full or empty.

*Drops the Mike*

Originally Posted by Fourpaw (Post 2188909)

Okay I'll pm you in five years with their answers. My kids are 4 and 6 and grew up with me being a pilot...it's all they know. They love airplanes and flying and love it when we travel places, about once a month or so depending on the schedule that month.

I used to take then with me when I did corporate. My wife also supports my job and doesn't bad mouth me and my profession when I'm gone. As I said, all in how you look at it...half full or empty.

Just saw your other comment, they love it when I'm home because that means they'll get to.have fun. IE fairs and carnivals, games, even just heading into town and farting around. Nuclear family here.

*Drops the Mike*

Originally Posted by t6dpilot (Post 2191495)

Interesting reading all the comments here and surprised (but not really) at some of the highly negative comments. Especially RyanP. If you are in that bad of a state, then you really should consider a career change.

If you don't mind, I will give you my take and welcome any comments. I too am working on this career change. I have spent 27 years in the private sector within a couple of different industries and am looking to do something different. I am one of those that love aviation having grown up around it and will probably be one of the guys reading aviation magazines in the crew lounge. And I'll most likely be one of the older guys in class at 52 and am looking forward to the experience.

I already have a CTP class date in early Sep followed by CRJ school immediately after. Not looking forward to the multiple weeks gone from home, but I know it is a one time deal to get the signoff. The great thing is that my wife is 100% in support of this decision and I will live at my base in Chicago. Hopefully that can last until we decide to relocate. We live in a great community that is actually not all that far from ORD - maybe 20 mins, so I am hoping this will offset some of the less desireable aspects of being a Jr. FO. My goal is to put in my time as FO, learn as much as I can (having fun while I am learning), and upgrade to CA in 2 years or so (projected time for an ORD CRJ CA). Fly as CA on the CRJ for a couple of years and review options.

I know that regional life is constantly in flux, so my "plan" will most likely change multiple times. However, the goal of getting a type rating or two and a 000's of hours turbine time should pan out. I think I would like a flow to the majors, but could it be possible that I actually like being at my regional? Maybe... I am certainly not ruling that out. Also, I have a friend who flies for UPS, so that is in the back of my mind also for some years down the road, although I am fully aware that is a tough seat to get. Understanding the current pilot shortage is only going to get worse, should create a better environment (i.e. flow to where you want to go) for pilots, no?

Regarding the 9-5 corporate world, DO NOT fool yourself about the security there. First of all, I don't know any of my former colleagues who worked 9-5 or even 8-5. Plus, no job is secure any longer and management will cut heads at the drop of a hat. No reason needed, just "going in a different direction." It could be to bolster their position with senior management or to cut costs (see previous) or any other reason that may or may not be performance related. And they will do this without warning or a "work out" program no matter how good a performer the person is or his/her tenure with the company. And if you are lucky to keep your job, then long work days are the norm, not the exception. It is the way of the world today. Not many jobs are safe and cushy any longer.

If you think an airline pilot's schedule is long and hard, so are many coporate positions, one of those being in a national business development or sales management role. I used to do it and I see my neighbor gone many weekends and typically most of the week. Early Mon departures and late Fri arrivals - almost every week. Sucks, but you do what you have to do. I actually didn't mind the travel as I got to see lots of different customers and parts of the country, but it did get tiresome sometimes.

That said, it is time for a change and I am looking forward to it. I do not know exactly where it will lead, but I am ready for all possibilities. Saying this tongue firmly in cheek, but I look at it like this - it won't be much different than my previous business travel - gone for 3 (or many 4) nights, hotels, airport and restaurant meals, airline travel - except the TSA lines are shorter and I get the best seat in the house. Well, that is how I am looking at it to start. Carry on....