Airline Pilot Central Forums - Weird clearance... I was confused. Could use some input.

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Watch out for the Texans, Tones, and T-38's in the XL pattern...

Quote:

Originally Posted by PistolP (Post 115266)

Watch out for the Texans, Tones, and T-38's in the XL pattern...

? ? ? ? ? ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ85FO (Post 115220)

Precisely...
Im the garmin you just go to the user waypoint page, enter a name for your waypoint. Select the fix you want to REF WPT field (DLF) enter your radial (301) in the RAD field and enter your desired distance (60nm) in the DIS field.

Then hit DIRECT TO and you are LNAVing where you need to go.

I am a little disturbed by your post though, if you had GPS on board why are you commenting about not being able to receive the VOR that far out? The VOR is a waypoint in the database, you do not need to recieve the radio signal to navigate with it.

If you were in 699RK you were filed /G, so that is why you were issued an "RNAV" type waypoint. If you are going to file /G, you should know how to use the RNAV function of your box.

Be careful out there man.

I didn't file that. He called it in. I'm guessing because there are no airways ect to navigate by to get to DRT? I've never had to use the RNAV function. I commented about not being able to receive the VOR that far out because as I stated I didn't know how to tell the GPS to select a desired point then find another point 60nm from the radial of it. I ended up doing it but not nearly as easy as it should have been done. I didn't think they could issue you points that weren't listed I guess. It was confusing. I've flown IFR to many places but for the most part they did what I considered standard proceedure. This was the first time I had been issued something like this which I considered weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 115236)

NO! Unless I misunderstood the original clearance, he WAS NOT cleared to intercept the 301 radial and track it to the D60 point...he was cleared DIRECTLY to the D60 point from his current position (which was not on the 301 radial). That means a straight line courtesy of RNAV. RJ85FO described how to program that into the Garmin.

The only reason TD got away wiith this was because he was on a nearby radial, so his approximation wasn't noticeable to ATC, or they just didn't care about the slight deviation.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND I was not alone and was with someone much more skilled than I. He wanted me to see what I'd do. So I explained to him that I was on the 126 radial already. So to fly to the 121 radial really would only require a small change. Kind of like if you were with a check examiner. We were never in danger. Just really exciting.... and confusing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Podaddy (Post 115246)

The reason for the weird clearance is because of that little old AFB that was sitting off your nose on the descent. The Moa's surround Laughlin AFB and are stacked one on top of another. It's been a while but the 15K foot level off was to put you between the high and low areas. The other guys are right about building the point on the radial in the box. If you were in range and, a military guy, you would be doing a fix to fix direct (old school, use the box). Look at the approaches into Laughlin. The controller was probable getting you out of the way for the arrivals and not trying to make you work. The base is incredible busy with low time student pilots flying jets in close proximity to each other. If you fly in there often watch out. They have three runways, Moa's everywhere, aux fields and they are all busy all day long.

They don't stack MOA's. The north area I believe they go from 9k up for the T-38-s and south they go from 6k up for the T-6's I think.

TD, did you have any luck finding it in the manual?? Do you have a 430 manual? It's on page 112 - 113 in mine.

So this 25K hour pilot you were with wasn't able to explain this simple GPS operation? Who "checked" you out on your first Garmin device? They should have been able to teach you this "direct to a random waypoint" procedure on your first day of GPS usage before the engine even started. It all goes back to lack of thorough instruction. Come on CFIs, don't let your students down...

Toilet Duck if you haven't found it yet here it is...
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf

it's on page 7-17

If that link didn't work you can download it from the garmin site here...
http://www.garmin.com/products/manua...t=010-00139-11

download the " Pilot's Guide, Rev. J, Jun, 2006"

TD,

I agree with N5, it's good that you ask questions (and maybe we can even answer one or two correctly).

But Dhc8Fo has a point too...this particular question goes beyond the usual internet forum debates. The situation that occured had the potential for SERIOUS trouble if the geometry had been different. There are several problems here:

1) You didn't know how to make your airplane do something it's capable of.
2) You filed a flight plan that indicated that you COULD use that capability.
3) When asked to do something that you didn't know how to do, you tried to wing it.
4) You did not even know that what you were doing was not in compliance with IFR rules.

This is one of those chain-of-events you've probably hear people talk about. Fortunately the end result was a technical foul that nobody noticed.

Another factor was the other pilot (I assume you were the FO?) He probably filed the flight plan, and you relied on his "superior" experience. Another lesson to be learned here.

Suggestions:

1) Review the 91 and the AIM on IFR ops, especially RNAV & GPS
2) Review the equipment codes that you use or might want to use. They changed recently due to RVSM and might be a little confusing.
3) Read your Garmin supplement.
4) Don't let your captain or boss or whatever put you in this kind of predeciment...eventually it will cost you. I only trust people that I have a lot of positive experience with. And even then I double check things if I have time.