Me too. Like I said it could depend on who you talk. I called the FSDO in houston a while back on an issue about this and another guy called Alliance and they both said it didn't. So when in grey area you call in and get names. I know who I talked to I just consider it rude to put names on the web. Anywho is was because my two CFI's I know when to Pinnacle and did it while there and one while at Express from my home by houston. We all talked about this(2 years ago or so) and said it was all grey area so we called in. They said what I've stated. We talked about it. I shot regs at them they shot them back and said basically CFI's need protection within the rules to work. Of course he didn't write the rules but that's why he said he thought the areas hadn't been clearly defined.

And Fosters yes it's grey area. I've laid it out as clearly as I can. You have to have a commercial ticket because you can teach commercial students. There are no limitations placed on a CFI's rating that state he can only teach privates(that I know of). However, when acting as a CFI you are not acting as a commercial pilot eventhough money changes hands. Because of this you are not flying for any other commercial operators nor acting as one on your own. That is what FAR 119 was stating. If you aren't flying another 135 or 121 operation it doesn't count. Also the Chief Pilot of Martine Air backs that. When I needed someone to fill in for me from time to time I get one of them with their CFI ratings to help since they are here all day. However there was an air ambulace here part 135 that wanted to use them during the day while they weren't flying and the pilots legally couldn't.

That's how it is. Doesn't really matter how much grey area rules you toss at me. That's what the FSDO told us, that's how Martine Air operates(and they are pretty on the ball with their regs) and thats how the 3 captains before me have operated. All without conflict. Now, if your company says NO it could be just them saying NO. When in doubt. Call the FSDO for yourself. Or call your company and ask them. You could have had your answer by now.

But with that reasoning, CFI's without an ATP can't teach ATP students, which is incorrect - they can. So, that blows your argument.

OK hold the phone. The exemption in Part 119 lists RIGHT UNDER "Student Instruction"

- Sight seeing flights
- Ferry Flights
- Crop dusting
- Aerial Photography
- Several others that aren't needed to prove my point.

Are you saying that (a) because instruction is exempted by part 119 it isn't a commercial operation and (b) that those items listed below instruction in the same delineated paragraph aren't commercial operations either? Because I think it's fairly obvious that you need a commercial license to do the other things listed, and doing them would count against your 1000 hours/yr. Any commercial flying counts against that, not just 121 and 135 time!

Just because they can't fly 135 doesn't mean they couldn't do part 91 instruction, so I don't buy your argument about them not legally being able to do it. As you probably know, part 91 has no limitations like 121 and 135 does. Also, you have no idea if the Company keeps track of their instruction flight time.

I can agree with something - I absolutely agree it's a grey area. Now, why would you do something that is "grey"? How do you know which way the POI looking over your records/logbook swings?

My company doesn't say "NO". They say "check with us and get the chief pilots' approval". Simple as that. They wanted my CFI time prior to me getting hired to count it against the 1000 hours/year. That tells me they track all commercial flying.

SAABaroowski vs Fosters at the Bellagio Las Vegas, NV May 19, 2007 7:30PM (in the parking lot).

The favorite= Fosters

Pay Per View Event, $29.95

If he ever gets his butt to ORF I'm gonna buy him a beer - reading his posts I think I'd laugh thru the entire dinner :D!!!

Ill take a Blue moon with an orange please ;)

I am not going to take the time to get out the FAR's...don't really have access to them anyways :) but MY airline asked me about my commercial flying and I asked them about my flight instruction (1600 hours in the previous 12 months before being hired) they didn't consider this commercial flying and if they had I would have been timed out for the next couple months right out of groundschool.

Alright next one is a CFI CAN NOT teach anything he does not have, with the exception to the ATP however, the ATP requires NO instruction or sign off for the written or cert.

A flight instructor CAN give instruction WITHOUT a medical. Last I checked it required at least a 2nd class medical to exercise the rights of your commercial ticket.

I guess what I am saying is I don't see how one could consider that commercial flying. Oh and if someone wants to pull out the dictionary on me too, go ahead...I have better things to do with my time :)

they're both certificates. the difference is that the Commercial is a pilot certificate, and the CFI is an airman's certificate (kind of like a FE cert.)

one lets you fly an airplane, the other lets you do extra stuff beside fly.


if you log ANY flight time (total, dual given, PIC, etc.) you are being compensated for your time, and therefore have to have a comm. cert. this counts against the 1000hrs you are allowed per year under 121.

as long as you do not log the time at all, you're ok

Actually, the FAA has stipulated many circumstances that constitute "compensation". But that's a different subject. We're talking about CFI'ing for extra money here, so my guess is the CFI will be getting money, which is the purest form of compensation you can get :).

So you're saying if there's no record of it, then it didn't happen? Do you work for Mesa?

That's like saying if the airline changes your out/in times to make you legal for the next day's flying then that's legal too - as long as the paperwork trail shows you are legal you are OK. I don't agree with that one, but you certainly are entitled to your opinion.

How many of those did you have over the course of this thread? I saw each post getting just a little bit more inebriated than the last one :p

Did you not read? I said I use the guys to CFI. They wanted to fly 135 on the side and couldn't. CFI was legal.

Perhaps you should take a look at what's required to get your ATP then think about it a bit. Then read the statement again.

Nobody wants to. There's grey everywhere. How do you know which way he swings? Easy. Like I said give him/her a call.

When does a year start? I really don't know what one. Is it past 12 callender months? If so then what? So if I was hired and I'm at 1300hrs within one year I'd have to sit on the ground for 3 months till I could finally fly again? I doubt it.

Can you show this? I'm just curious because the others didn't find it so we called in and they said being a CFI was different.

To my knowledge, and this was just from a MD-11 pilot I was working for. You are still required to have a class 2 medical. I believe, and this could be stretching it, a CFI is still a whole different case. Eitherway you can't prove it does anymore than we can prove it can't outside of how it was interpreted by the FAA when I called them.