You speak of "guarantees" and want me to give credence to anything you say? That in and of itself is laughable at best. Flows are a recruiting tool. Nothing more. How many years do you have to be on property at envoy before flowing? Pick a regional to avoid commuting, or make commuting as painless as possible. One that pays decent with a good overall compensation package. Market yourself and network. That is the quickest way to a legacy.

 

Unfortunately, these numbers are not evidence of some kind of direct cause-and-effect relationship. There are too many factors involved, not the least of which is the actual quals of the individual pilots, and their individual performances at the individual interviews.

>Today< AA has a huge chunk of their classes filled by flows (and this year and last have had much of the remainder of those classes filled by furlough returns). There is no way of knowing if this is going to be true next month or next year. None of us have a big enough tarot card collection to know what the scene is going to be in 2019.

Given the average timeframe at a regional for a guy just joining the ranks today, it is just folly to think that what is true today will also be true in 2-3 years when they've attained enough experience to move on. It is folly to think anyone knows when a 2016 newhire at an AA wholly-owned regional will have their seniority number picked to flow.

The bottom line is, all regionals are the same in terms of career prospects. Pilots from all of them are being hired at all of the career destinations at generally the same rate, and invitations and CJOs are meted out based on individual merits. Feel free to cheerlead your favorite regional to try and recruit newhires there, but potential newbies need to be able to differentiate between what is advertising and what is fact (and understand the real reason why a particular company might really want a newhire to join their ranks instead of a different company).

There are much, much more important factors to consider than this when figuring out where you want to fly at the regional level.

 

This times infinity.

 

Times multiple infinity raised to the power of a googolplex.

 

Don't forget that things are changing quickly, and what was true 18 months ago is not true now. If you don't keep up, your information is outdated quickly.

If Envoy is getting 50% of new hire AA classes, PDT is getting 25%, and PSA is getting 25% - that doesn't leave much room for people outside, does it?

What was true last year will not be true next year. Choose carefully.

I am not cheering for the AA regionals. I think that they are poorly run and underpaid. There are much better companies out there. But, know what is really happening at each, and in the industry as a whole.

 

The problem is you are touting your opinion as fact. The truth is none of us know what the future holds. I have a hard time believing AA will be able to satisfy all their hiring needs solely from within the WOs. That is unless all 3 can increase hiring exponentially and continue to do so for years to come. 15 to 30 a month for envoy ain't gonna cut it.

 

What makes you "special?" exactly? Aside from attributes that Can't exactly be expressed rightfully on paper, what can I do to make myself stand out in a pool of thousands of applicants? I've thought about getting a masters for personal reasons but never thought it would actually have an impact on potential future hiring.

 

I suppose that's another subquestion, which you and many others seem to be attacking head on: how important are flows? Addmittately, although I do have a preference on legacy/major carrier I'd like to end up with, it's not a choice I'd even necessary want to make now. So perhaps the other question would be: would going to a carrier such as endeavor hurt my chances of being picked up by say AA, or going to PAA hurt my chances of getting picked up at delta, etc. Basically, at the end of the day, I (and I'm sure many others) want to have options. Don't get me wrong, I am definitely interested in flows, but in my eyes they've yet to be proven long term as having value.

 

I believe what he is referring to are guys who go through the regionals who all ready have some other kind of experience (coming from substantial experience in corporate or military flying, for example) that makes them more appealing to a major.

That being said, having a Masters can help...but you need to seriously do a cost/benefit analysis of spending that kind of time and money for the specific purpose of landing a job at a major airline. It isn't the one thing that is going to get you hired with an otherwise average resume.

IMHO, all else being equal, you are better off spending your time on community service or finding leadership positions you can hold within the profession (recruiter, training, LCA, union committee or rep, etc).

 

I think if anyone does some research into the history of flow agreements and what they yielded to the pilots that went to them, you'll find that they're not the great deal that some make them out to be. Yes, flow agreements are contracts that both sides theoretically have to hold up, but history has shown us that these agreements can be changed, ended, delayed, modified, you name it, by all kinds of different legal maneuvering by the company with the most attorneys. Take a look at the amount of time that pilots spent at regionals before they flowed, then ask yourself if in the current hiring environment such an agreement makes sense.

The main attraction of a flow agreement seems to just be that you don't have to go interview for a major job. The main complaint seems to be that major airline interviews are hard to get and a lot of effort to prepare for. It is amazing that people are willing to make career decisions based on this, but reading the threads here are more than ample evidence that some folks think this way.

One thing to consider is that a regional pilot who joins an AA regional with a flow is bound to flowing in seniority order at American. In other words, if that regional pilot has, or goes out and builds himself, a resume that is awesome, they won't get an interview call from AA until it is time to flow. Delta and United and UPS might give that guy interviews right away, but AA won't touch him until his flow number comes up in seniority order ( and who knows how many years down the road that might be).

So, in some ways, depending on who you are, flying for an AA-wholly-owned can actually be more limiting than it is helpful.

I don't have a dog in the fight either way, but pilots should look at all the other factors that go into getting an interview and job at a major, and decide if the time spent waiting for a flow (that may or may not actually materialize) is worth it. For some, it might be. YMMV.