Average 4 day trip hours?
 

What are the average 4 day trips like at your airline?

Block hours vs. Credit hours
Are they commutable on 1 side at least?
Early start/late finish?

I know all companies have some good trips, and some bad trips, but what is the average/normal?

What do you consider to be a good trip? 18 credit hours? 20 hours credit? 23 hours credit?

I would call 23 hours good for a four day if it's commutable on both ends if it's commutable and 27 hours if it's only commutable on one end.

Who do you work for? Also, is a trip like this common (is it normal to get a 27 hour trip)

Compass. I would say our average four day is 22 hours, but if you're senior there are lots of very high credit trips. I've had a 16 hour two day, a 22 hour three day, and a 28 hour four day.

Those are pretty good trips.

OO trips average 5 hours a day with good trips being 24 to 26 hours. We do have plenty that only pay the 16:48 minimum though.

The data varies but roughly..
4 days: CRJ at Skyw averages low fives of pay per day. 7/9 averages mid fives per day.

Layovers average 16 hours.

At PSA a "good" 4 day would be 22 hrs. I would say average is 20 but I've seen 12 hour 4 days.

Our scheduler is criminally inefficient. Lots of deadheads and long sits. Plus you only get min day on day 1 if you start before noon and on day 4 if you finish after 5. With 3 of 4 bases being out stations a lot of trips start or end with a deadhead.

I believe as a line holder the first and last deadheads can be to/from another location. As a reserve if you call to be released from your last deadhead so you can catch a commute the schedulers will actually tell you that you need to wait until the deadhead flight is actually wheels up before you can depart. ridiculous smh

At envoy our schedules are fantastic, 4 day trip 16.50 hours and 3 day trip 9 hours. Where can you work to have 11 days off and 75 hour lines like this, envoy. Come to envoy and enjoy sitting around airports all day meeting interesting people. Oh did I mention most are non commutable.

That would be highly dependent on base. In MSP most of the summer I could barely get 19.5 hours out of a 4 day. June was the worst ever with four 4 days crediting between 18:40 and 19:30. Most of my trips were right around the 4:1 TAFB guarantee.

The good news is most of my trips for August were around 20 hours for a 4 day which are considered good commutable trips in MSP. September is likely to be back down in credit hours.

Airfix

Most of the PSA 4 days are commutable, and if they aren't just SAP out of them and into commutable trips. I'd say the average 4 day here is anywhere from 14-18 hours. Anything over 20 hours I'd consider a good trip. Over 25 and commutable and we're starting to talk unicorn status. Some 3 days have good credit too. I've seen a few 20 hour 3 days.

Which is why I said average

Legacy AA. I have two trips with 18.10 a 22 hour, and an 20 hour. All four days. Very inefficient. Some are commutable both ends one is commutable on one end. We spend massive amounts of time in hotels. Believe it or not it has improved. I have consistently worked 20 plus days a month in the past. I used to do a three day 10:24. 23 days I worked one month. JFK-BDA sit for 30 plus hours and one leg home. Not bad in summer but not good in winter. We have no minimum day off unless you are on reserve.

That was always my thought, until the PSA SAP for September. Probably the worst open trips I have seen since I started.

I literally checked it every hour for the entire 24 hours and was only able to make one decent trade.

Worked my ass off and ended up with 15 days off and just over guarantee.


But talking about 4 days. I have to go start packing for my 12.5 hour 4 day tomorrow. Thanks PSA.

Good God man. That is a trip that you call in sick for.

I did see a 9.5 hour 4 day trip on the CLT CA SAP board.

Some pilots actually like those, believe it or not. The Sim Instructors are being forced to fly a certain number of days each month. It is required, and they do not get paid extra (they already make good money). So, some of them try to pick up 10-12 hour trips. It still counts for their 4 days, and they have to do less work.

The SAP is a great tool at PSA, but it only works well if the schedules are efficient. I usually bid for a line with at least 2 good trips that I would want to fly. Then, I SAP out of the ones that I don't want. I don't mind a 17 hours 4 day if the overnights are good. It is a little vacation.

The other trick is to trade the crappy 4 day trips for a 1 day in the SAP. Then, pick up a good 4 day trip later in FCFS and get payed extra for SDO. Even if you pick up a 17 hour trip, the extra SDO pay makes it worth over 21 hours, even if it does not go critical.

Yeah, a guy from my training class that was hired on as a sim instructor about a year and a half ago got pulled from the sims and is on a full flying line this month since sims are so slow. Flew a leg with him the other night. Poor guy.

I don't feel bad for them.

The instructors were hired outside of a Captain vacancy bid, and thus are technically should not be flying the line as Captains. They upgraded outside of seniority order.

The DEC's were allowed in because the company held an upgrade bid, it went unfilled, and they hired DEC's. But this wasn't true for the sim instructors. The union should fight this, and make the company pay the instructors to sit at home, and upgrade some FO's to fly the open CA lines.

So a legacy isn't all that great except the pay. I figured more time off with more credit.

Ours are about 20 hours with a $150 worth of per diem.

Endeavor is all over the board. We have a min day so the lowest you will get is 16 hours. I have had everything from 16 hours to 26 hours on the 200, some 900 trips are closer to 30 hours

For the companies that have average trips with 25 hours of credit, does this mean that the average person gets (3) 25 hour trips, and maybe a 2 day?

Does the average pilot really have 17-18 days off every month?

AWAC is like all the rest it seems. I have seen 15-16 hour 4 day trips and I have seen 26-27 hours. I would say the average is 20. Our average block per duty period is always hovering a little over 5 hours.

My best 4 day got up to about 32 hours after a few weather delays. It was good for credit, but damn that was a long 4 day trip!

Dont forget 30-35 hour five days! I even had a 38 hour 5 day last summer. commutable on the back ends usually too. 75-85 hour lines and 15-18 off is what Iv been getting recently. YMMV.

I'm not sure how that is even possible with 117.

If you had even a small delay, you would have to time out. Seems irresponsible.

MSP is the sore spot at SKW. Most other bases have better trips. Not sure how DTW will shake out.

Don't try bashing efficient trips...

I'm not. I just can't imagine an airline creating trips like that. You would have to be right at duty limits to have trips that have that many block hours. If you had even an hour delay somewhere along the way, you would time out. It is irresponsible scheduling, for the airlines and the passengers. Airlines don't typically schedule like that.

If you had the choice between efficient or inefficient trips which would you choose? Both is not an option. Airlines always respect 117 when scheduling and most use historical block times that account for average delays. I'd rather sit on my butt at home than in the hotel for 20 hours.

Lol.......

Maybe flying all short legs sure, you are right. But in the CRJ700/900 and the E175 certain routes have the potential to yield much more. All I can say is I have done numerous trips as follows.
2 flying legs a day, approx 3.5 hour flights, 1-2 deadheads rolled into a 5 day, say 3 hours worth= 38 hours. Each day has HOURS to spare. 117 only becomes an issue after a significant delay that would result in changing of schedule due to duty time limits regardless of it being 3 hours block or 8 a day. It really is possible. I know, because it basically all I do. 38 is rare, most certainly. But I average 30-35 during 5 day trips. Most of them dont have deadheads, and usually are just two legs a day.

I guess what I meant is when the schedules initially come out. Is this not true at your shop?

One nice thing about trips at Endeavor is a five day pays out minimum of 25 hours, well above Monday. I know some commuters who bid for them.

Makes it slightly more worthwhile to be away from home for that long, if you happen to be in base. I still prefer 3 days though

I've been at Endeavor for a year and my last 3 months have been 16, 17, and 17 days off.

I fly the 200 (which is a bit more inefficient schedules). I have seen 18/19 days off on the 900 side.

This month it was 2 5 day trips and a 4 day.

Envoy, 4 day trips suck, 13-18 hrs. 11 days off will get you a 80-83 hr line. 12-15 days off, 72-75hrs.

Your ignorance is once again astounding. Just because you have never seen extremely efficient pairings, does not mean they don't exist. We fly 7.5 to 8.5 hour locals on the EJET. If you are senior enough to hold those you can work 2 to 3 days a week and be in your own bed every night.

+1... Guys at OO are getting 20 days off flying locals (think SEA-OKC/MKE). This "irresponsible scheduling" has got to stop. Give me a break oldMan

DaOldMan, Now this is irresponsible scheduling...

The average regional flight is 1 hr and 21 minutes. With taking that into consideration, it is darn near impossible to block a trip that high.

If you are flying 3.5 hr legs, every trip, it is possible. But no regional should be flying trips that long. That is mainline. When you get to mainline, you will see. If you are flying mainline routes, that is irresponsible.

Republic on the "shuttle" side does this. They do stuff like Newark to Chicago then to Denver and overnight. A three hour leg is a daily flight for them.