Mesa Mins!
 

I must say, I am now scared to be up in the sky!

http://www.flightcareers.com/Pace_Br...i_Training.htm

Comair too, possibly.
 

I hope it's not true, but I just spoke with a captain who said Comair will soon be lowering their mins to Commercial Multi and Instrument minimums; and you won't have to pay for their program to get that job.

Just looks like another "CAPT" program?

Laughable...
 

Absolute joke...

Finally, the folks sitting in the right seat will have caught up w/ the pay scales.

woot Mesa. Improving the airline industry, nation wide.

my god....holy ******

Isn't this just another PFT? I don't mean that in an advocating way....I just thought they already did something like this. Either way, it's Mesa, is anyone really that suprised?

Not really for Mesa... but if that guy is right about Comair, I'd have to say I would be a little bit surprised. I remember when they were the place to be...

I wasn't hightime when i was hired by anymeans, but actually seeing it in writing can make me a little scared. The guys who i was instructing, would now be in uniform next to me.

hmmm, im going corporate.

I know quite a few of these PACE grads and they are all very mature, smart, and competent airmen.

I am not a grad, but have seen the product. More of them work the line than you think, and their safety record is excellent.

The program works.

Good point, wasn't it just a few months ago that Comair wasn't even Hiring, now they are hiring anyone who can do a lazy 8?

This industry is so volatile; we are all crazy for getting into it...who knows what's next :rolleyes:

After 10 years of aviation working everything from Ramper-Fueler- CFII- Army Aviation OPS-Crew Scheduler-Dispatcher-
I feel like I have too much invested, now its just a matter of holding on and trying to survive. :(

I am not a fan of MAPD...

But historically speaking, I tend to agree with you. A few years ago you really had to have some ability and motivation to complete that program and get a job at Mesa...then it took 4+ years to meet captain mins.

The problem NOW is that the standards are much lower, ie pass the credit check. I saw some useless punks with real attitudes coming on line when I was still at mesa, but at least THEY had to interview. The MAPD grads today go directly to new-hire class, they don't even interview them. :eek: :eek: :eek: Like GIA, you can definately buy a job at mesa today.

I know a guy who did 'buy' a job at Mesa, but he was recently sh#t-canned. So at least they have the balls to fire you if you're too much of a punk on the line. If you worked there, you might know who I'm talking about actually...

haha you're a funny guy

Do you have to be a US Citizen or will they hire you with a green card. Maybe Johnnie from Bombay can leave Microsoft to become a pilot now???

How does the FAA allow this ???

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Have you been drinking?

Maybe their 'excellent safety record' says more for the Captains baby-sitting them than it does for that program pumping out 240hr f/o's in a jet. How much experience can you possibly have with your paper temporary-commercial-airman cert. and no real time?
This whole notion is a sad commentary...

Because, unfourtunately- They're not violating any reg.

Same thing with ExpressJets obsession with 600 hour guys from ALLATPS. It's sickening.

Another great reason why pay is terrible.

No they may not be violating an FAR, however, any POI that allows this must be.........Anyways, at Focus Air Cargo we had ERAU cadets that were going to work administrative jobs for a year and then get hired as 747 F/Es. Our POI took a look at that and said the 747 F/E position is not an entry level position. It's just my humble opinion that the RJ is not an entry level airplane either.
Makes me wonder.....

I agree with you philosophically, but the law is crystal clear and a POI doesn't have the authority to add experience reqirements over what the FAR's specify.

Our current commercial license requirements came out of a by-gone era...that level of experience should be limited to what it was originally developed for: smallish, unpressurized, recip airplanes.

Turbine and 121 pilots should have an ATP, period.

Becoming an FAA Comercial pilot is to easy!
 

[COLOR=black]I agree that the FAA CPL course standards and requirements are ridiculously low. I think modern times call for different approaches. For example; the JAA has recently changed the CPL license knowledge requirements to ATPL standards. This means that you have to take a 6-12 month theoretical course before you can even start to fly. I think the professional pilot education should be MUCH more academic than it is now, possibly changing it into a University like program. How many "fresh" commercial pilots really know how their plane works? Increasing the demands on pilot students would also root out some of the plonkers that shouldn’t be there in the first place and resolve the later trainability issue. This would mean that the airlines would no longer require a 4-year degree to ensure trainable people. It is ridiculous that you need to be a dentist or speach pathologist to become a pilot! Flying is for pilots! Raise the CPL standards so we can focus on flying, get fewer but better pilots and increased wages. I have no quarrels with the stick portion of the FAA CPL test though.

Wait a minute, 200 hours with inst commercial? Who the hell is going to spend 50k on their ab initio program now?? Seems like the PACE program is the only option that makes any sense in what they offer.

The sad thing about MAPD's is that they paid the money and Mesa is taking 250 hour comm guys who didn't. about 2 months ago half the new hire class was 250 hour guys that just went to regular flight schools like ALL of you did. does that make them bad for taking the job? I'll let you guys fight about that one, but almost half of them failed the new hire class so I guess the #'s still speak for themselves.

I will say that I have flown with a couple of MAPD's that have been with the company for over a year and did an excellent job as far as I was concerned but I guess it's those first few months that everyone is worried about right:rolleyes:

This is a serious question. NOT trying to start an argument, or new thread. But, how many hours does a "new" military pilot have (or HAVE to have) to do a "mission" (or whatever it's called) in the cockpit alone? (not solo the aircraft)

The problem is, unlike other professions where unions have set standards to enter the industry, the pilots unions have done nothing. Plumbers and Electricians have set standards, and professions like teachers doctors lawyers all have education requirements, what then of being a pilot? If the pilot profession is to be saved there needs to be standards high enough to weed out the everyday guy from entering it. Only then may you demand more for being a pilot. Until then, the profession will disintegrate into an uneducated bus driving like job. The time to do something has past and these are the results. Instead of rolling eyes and watching whats happening you should all fire your unions and demand a legitimate union that will prevent these things from happening and put the pilot career on the right path.
You can train almost anyone to be a pilot. It is not about whether the training program will work or not, because obviously it does. The goal is to place other barriers to entering the profession. Anyone do plumbing and electric by reading a book, its the 5 year apprenticeship that acts as a barrier to prevent joe blow from opening his own shop next to yours.

You know what, times are changing, if Mesa was the only one that had this offer I would be furious about it. However look around, there are rumors of industry wide 250 hour minimums. As much as we like to put blame on MESA, it's not them. Companies just can't find pilots so they have to lower mins. You can't blame them and pilots taking these deals. Back then it was 2500 now it's 250, we just have to deal with it.

It's funny how airlines will lower standards instead of raising pay.

Like I said, I am not a grad but around 70% of my classmates came from MAPD. They are great people, they all interviewed, and were hired b/c they are good pilots with a strong ability to learn.

The good news is, they fly with captains with plenty of flight time who help them aclimate to the job. True, it takes them 2-4 years to meet upgrade requirements, but by the time they do, they are very good at what they do.

Most of the MAPD guys are sent to the CRJ, an airplane that all of them have taken the systems class for, and have roughly 40 hours of sim time in, from the right and left seat. They have already completed a mock oral exam, and taken different versions of the written tests that the rest of us hadn't seen before.

FlyrNY I have to agree with you. Absolutely no offense to young guys coming in thru some sort of program. But for the industry's health and maintaining some integrity making pilots unique and respected, that is what we need. Unfortunately, as they say times have changed and we are the local bus drivers now racing to the bottom in salary and respect by passengers and management. Again this is meant in no way to bash the lower time guys having the oppurtunity to come into the industry, its the just reality, and because they lower mins, you have the revolving door. Management knows this and has the leverage to lower salaries and QOL. As they say , the prestige is gone unfortunately.

Oh brother!! EVERYTHING is this world is cyclical, including this airline industry, so no worries guys. Come on, let's just go to the bar drinks are on me!!!

Thats the best idea I have heard all week!! :) Goose an tonic plzz

yes sir!!!

Jack on the "rocks", with a Miller Lite

AHHH the good ol days...:)

I saw it stated a couple times that what needs to happen isn't lowering the minimums, but raising the pay...i might be willing to agree with both, but a question, how is raising the pay going to help the company cope with the problem of "enough airplanes, not enough pilots" I have a hard time believing that more qualified pilots will simply come out of the woodworks because pay was bumped up, i do however agree that all of us already here would be happier. And it would give the 250hr kids even more excitement to want to join the ranks.

PS-

I'll have a drink w/ you guys.

I have been saying that all along

I think it's more about attracting more qualified applicants. I've signed up for the NYPD test 4 times over the last several years but never took the test. Why? Because I can't afford to live on 30K a year, let alone in NY. Raise that to 50-60K and I may have taken the plunge. I think there are good people out there who can't afford the lifestyle change. It's definitely a young(single, no wife/kids, or rich wife) or rich man's game these days as a newbie.

Don't let the salary fool you. I live in NYC and it's funny but they always seem to have the biggest houses, boats and take more than 1 nice vacation a year...All while having 3-4 kids. HMM, I wonder how they do THAT. :rolleyes:

Besides, Slice dear, you're not arrogant enough to be one of them. ;)
Stick to being a pilot. :D

Now, if you want to be a fireman........