A funny observation is how the "people" that say or decided in that the flow does not work & went to wrk for a non WO. are the ones flying for non-working carriers (or non-flowing carriers).

FYI... the flow works. Envoy/Eagle for example, has "flowed" approx 950 pilot %60 of AA's new hire class since 2006.

Yeaaaaaaaah... the flow does not work *sarcasm*

Eat your heart out. Tell yourself whatever lie you want to pleasure yourselves.

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You AA WO boys love it.

To say PSA has a flow is a little misleading. It would more aptly be described as a trickle.

First Officer Bucket should be about a year from upgrade now, right?

OK. I'll bite and sink to your level.

Our current pilots flowing have been on property 9 years (2007 hires). How long have your current flows been at Eagle/Envoy?

(Waiting for you to tell me how many more you flow a month - which is true, but no one knows how long any of that will continue. As of right now, our pilots have spent less time at a WO. It may change in the future, but as of now, we are doing fairly well.)

We are currently sending more pilots to other airlines than we are to AA. Heck, we are sending more to Delta than we are to AA. We are filling classes. We are upgrading in about 26 months, and reserve time is low. Our schedules are pretty good, and with the SAP, we can make great schedules. No line holder has to ever work a holiday.

Blah Blah Blah. It has all been posted here hundreds of times.

Does a new hire today get hired in 2007 or 2016? In other words, new hires should look at what the flow through projection is for someone hired today, not years ago during the worst decade in the industry.
The pilots coming to Envoy are smart enough to understand that concept. Are you?
As far as Envoy's flow through numbers, it's 30 EVERY MONTH, and we do know exactly how long that lasts.
Envoy's flow through projection of 5.5 years is based only on the minimum meterable flow per month. They use 0 pilots per month for attrition to other airlines, unlike PSA who uses 20-25 per month, or about 2% of their pilot group every month. That would be like Envoy saying, ya we have 30 a month flowing but we have 37 more a month going to other airlines. Using the same attrition percentage to other airlines that PSA uses would drop Envoy's flow through projection to 28 months.
PSA pilots are not more desirable to legacy carriers. Using other airline attrition is dishonest at best and that is why Envoy doesn't use it.

It hasn't worked well for you thus far, but you are hoping that it will work better in the future. I understand. I've heard it 1000 times. This argument is accomplishing nothing. I am very happy for you guys. You have been screwed over time and time again by AA and now AAG. I honestly hope that your new hires flow to AA in 28 months. I see that FO Bucket is still hanging in there.

With that said, no one knows what is going to happen in the future. I can tell you what has happened thus far.

We have lots of pilots that came here fresh out of instructing 3 years ago, upgraded as soon as they had 1000 hours, and are now getting picked up by major carriers.

In the three years they spent here, they spent 2-3 months on reserve TOTAL in 3 years (as CA and FO). They have 1000 TPIC, and have been able to set their own schedules with the SAP. It has been a pretty good 3 years.

Envoy is flowing 30 a month right now. Thats great. But, I would not give up what has and is continuing to happen here for your flow to the lowest paid legacy carrier. Your pilots have spent 3 years on reserve as a FO and if they ever do get a line, it will have one of your terrible schedules.

I much prefer what is happening here.

You continue to compare Envoy's past to PSA's past. It's not 2012 anymore. And you fail to repond to the disingenuous attrition numbers PSA uses.

Every calculation that I have seen for Envoy's flow numbers have been the maximum number of flows, and never decreasing...yet they do decrease.

What will the flow be after the 824 leave? 35% of new hire classes if the 40th 175 is not delivered, if I am not mistaken - and even then it drops to 25 a month.

Then it drops to 15 a month for the next group. Then it drops even more.

Envoy's flow numbers are high now and decreasing. How low? No one knows.

PSA's are low now, and increasing. How high? No one knows.

Envoy is shrinking. You are losing airplanes faster than you are gaining them, and you are top heavy and expensive. That is why upgrades have been stagnant, as have people being stuck on reserve for years. It is in AAG's best interest to get rid of your high paying 12+ year captains.

PSA is growing. We are gaining airplanes and reserve time is low, as is upgrade time. Our current upgrades are 26 months, and they are immediately line holders.

Who knows what is going to happen in the future.

L.O.L.

Anyone that falls for this koolaid party of smoke and mirrors deserves what they get at PSA. :rolleyes: