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-   -   This is why you NEVER sign a training contact (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/republic-airways/141862-why-you-never-sign-training-contact.html)

Excargodog 03-10-2023 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by Justabusdriver1 (Post 3605642)
First off they weren’t protected by the contract or union so there’s no grievance process to follow. Secondly the point being made isn’t an excuse for the pilots being sued but rather more about how most people in this thread are defending a company that will take advantage of pilots every chance they get.

I’m not a lawyer but pretty sure precedent has been set you can’t indenture someone indefinitely. Don’t know the time frames in this particular case either but the fact that the airlines these people went to haven’t hired anyone in about a year and rpa just now wants to collect on their contract probably won’t bode well in court. If they were offered classes and dipped before starting it would be a different discussion.

The military signs people up to delayed enlistment programs all the time. I guarantee you those are enforceable - and enforced.


9 Mar 2023
Military.com | By Amanda MillerThe Air Force plans to begin repaying up to $65,000 in student loan debt to attract more enlisted members once it finalizes the details of the program in the coming days.

The Air Force's loan repayment program will be a "critical benefit," the recruiting service's commander, Maj. Gen. Ed Thomas, told reporters Wednesday at the Air & Space Forces Association Warfare Conference in Aurora, Colorado.

Random Task 03-10-2023 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by Justabusdriver1 (Post 3605642)
First off they weren’t protected by the contract or union so there’s no grievance process to follow. Secondly the point being made isn’t an excuse for the pilots being sued but rather more about how most people in this thread are defending a company that will take advantage of pilots every chance they get.

I’m not a lawyer but pretty sure precedent has been set you can’t indenture someone indefinitely. Don’t know the time frames in this particular case either but the fact that the airlines these people went to haven’t hired anyone in about a year and rpa just now wants to collect on their contract probably won’t bode well in court. If they were offered classes and dipped before starting it would be a different discussion.


Bingo. My point went way over these guys' heads.

ImSoSuss 03-11-2023 04:34 AM


Originally Posted by Random Task (Post 3605741)
Bingo. My point went way over these guys' heads.

You're point has zero legal basis, that's my point. Obviously that went over a couple people's heads.

fasteddie800 03-11-2023 05:18 AM


Originally Posted by FAR121 (Post 3600640)
Republic Airways is Suing 12 Pilots, Seeking a Combined Total of $406,550.

Details: https://aerocrewnews.com/ehqu

So, an average of $34k per pilot.

These guys/gals all signed contracts, which I assume included verbiage along the lines of "if student does not complete the terms of this contract, Republic reserves the right to pursue civil litigation."

Seems likely that these 12 individuals took a look at their situations, looked at the contract, and made a judgement call. Hope it works out for them.

UhhhKhakis 03-11-2023 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3605661)
The military signs people up to delayed enlistment programs all the time. I guarantee you those are enforceable - and enforced.

While I agree that you shouldn’t sign a contract you’re not going to honor, the enlisted military contracts aren’t close to the same thing as this. These republic guys actually got things paid to them for what they agreed upon. Until you leave for basic, you’re not getting paid by the military so you can back out of the delayed military enlistment contracts up until the day you actually swear in for real and leave for basic. They tell you that when you sign up and even the day you go to MEPS to leave. The only time I can imagine that this wouldn’t be the case would be for national guard spots where you can get paid before you go to basic training.

Justabusdriver1 03-11-2023 09:46 AM

Again don’t know the actual time frames on when these defendants finished their training program/hour requirements vs when they eventually got offered a class date if they ever did. Timing is going to certainly be a big factor in this case. If it’s 3 months I’d say that leans more toward rpa if it’s 6 mo or more I’d say that leans more in favor of the pilots. There’s a big difference between a contract that says they’ll have training paid for without receiving an actual pay check vs getting a stipend for military. I’d put common sense on the side that says if they wanted these pilots to work for them upon completion they should have started paying them and on boarded them within a reasonable amount of time (imo not exceeding 3 mo). They can’t expect people to sit around jobless without income for an indefinite amount of time till rpa decides they want to execute on the contract.

Random Task 03-11-2023 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by ImSoSuss (Post 3605855)
You're point has zero legal basis, that's my point. Obviously that went over a couple people's heads.

I'm not attempting to make a legal argument. I'm an airline pilot.

Are you an airline pilot or a contract lawyer? Stay in your lane.

tnkrdrvr 03-11-2023 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by Justabusdriver1 (Post 3606070)
Again don’t know the actual time frames on when these defendants finished their training program/hour requirements vs when they eventually got offered a class date if they ever did. Timing is going to certainly be a big factor in this case. If it’s 3 months I’d say that leans more toward rpa if it’s 6 mo or more I’d say that leans more in favor of the pilots. There’s a big difference between a contract that says they’ll have training paid for without receiving an actual pay check vs getting a stipend for military. I’d put common sense on the side that says if they wanted these pilots to work for them upon completion they should have started paying them and on boarded them within a reasonable amount of time (imo not exceeding 3 mo). They can’t expect people to sit around jobless without income for an indefinite amount of time till rpa decides they want to execute on the contract.

We obviously are lacking details and aren’t lawyers. However, it’s perfectly legal to say that we pay for your training and when we call you will make yourself available. That doesn’t preclude them making money in the meantime either flipping burgers or doing turns at Endeavor. Depending on the wording they may have the legal right to simply cut a check rather than show up for work at Republic. We don’t know either way. In the bigger picture, most people get stressed out about being sued by a large corporation. This sends a useful signal to others while perhaps recouping money owed. It still boils down to young folks signing legal documents that obligate their future without adequate thought. Your word should be your bond, if it’s not life gets hard when nobody trusts you.

Excargodog 03-11-2023 10:32 AM


Originally Posted by UhhhKhakis (Post 3606006)
While I agree that you shouldn’t sign a contract you’re not going to honor, the enlisted military contracts aren’t close to the same thing as this. These republic guys actually got things paid to them for what they agreed upon. Until you leave for basic, you’re not getting paid by the military so you can back out of the delayed military enlistment contracts up until the day you actually swear in for real and leave for basic. They tell you that when you sign up and even the day you go to MEPS to leave. The only time I can imagine that this wouldn’t be the case would be for national guard spots where you can get paid before you go to basic training.

But that US the point. They took the money in the form of subsidized training and then used the result of that trading to go to a competitor while not paying back the money.

AerChungus 03-11-2023 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr (Post 3606083)
We obviously are lacking details and aren’t lawyers. However, it’s perfectly legal to say that we pay for your training and when we call you will make yourself available. That doesn’t preclude them making money in the meantime either flipping burgers or doing turns at Endeavor. Depending on the wording they may have the legal right to simply cut a check rather than show up for work at Republic. We don’t know either way. In the bigger picture, most people get stressed out about being sued by a large corporation. This sends a useful signal to others while perhaps recouping money owed. It still boils down to young folks signing legal documents that obligate their future without adequate thought. Your word should be your bond, if it’s not life gets hard when nobody trusts you.

Every regional CJO I've ever seen/heard of comes with a clause that starting at another 121 carrier voids your offer. I'd be shocked if these contracts didn't have similar verbiage. After all, the whole point is that Republic never called these pilots to work for them so more likely they just found out they were working elsewhere and are suing without calling them back.

Not defending or arguing, just figured I'd point that out


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