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Old 06-09-2018, 06:35 AM   #1
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Default Air Cargo Carriers CRW NTSB Final

Itís out. Not gonna post whole thing, but I find this interesting to say the least. NTSB used FOís personal IPhone to find a bunch of text messages about the captís less adequate judgment and instrument abilities. Maybe I havenít been paying attention, but this is the first Iíve seen something so personal cracked open by NTSB. Not sure how to feel about it, but clearly big brother is watching...

https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/61000-61...194/615487.pdf
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:44 AM   #2
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Riveting. And sad. Good post.
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:00 AM   #3
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I don't know that it's a matter of big brother. A huge amount of inexperience and immaturity in that cockpit. That the FO was texting while flying the leg makes his conversation very relevant to the investigation, especially as his commentary is directly related to his state of mind and the captain's, as well as both their actions.

The FO's commentary makes me deeply suspect of his account, however, given the high level of ignorance and his inexperience.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:16 AM   #4
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It was a HER....and unfortunately the CA was very much like the Colgan CA in the number of disapprovals that he had received and not told the company during the application process. She may have been inexperienced but her views very well have been accurate especially after flying with the CA numerous times.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:31 PM   #5
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She makes the observation that *her* total career experience with a captain is limited to one captain. This strongly points to her own inexperience, as does her language.

Her cell conversation points to an incident in which the captain was not in control of the aircraft, severely disoriented, in a state of panic, and afraid to fly again, yet he reportedly did and despite her awareness of it, carried on a lucid conversation, and elected to depart into the same conditions, in the same aircraft, with the same captain.

It's hard to wrap the mind around someone who has just had what they consider to be a life or death experience, and who has zero confidence in the captain with whom she is flying, carrying on a chatty conversation with not one, but two other people as they're flying in the same conditions that terrify them.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intrepidcv11 View Post
Maybe I havenít been paying attention, but this is the first Iíve seen something so personal cracked open by NTSB. Not sure how to feel about it, but clearly big brother is watching...

I saw an NTSB analysis of the pre-flight activities of the crew of the UPS flight that flew into the ground in Birmingham. (attempting to evaluate quantity and quality of rest) They had a pretty detailed listing of how often the FO used her smart phone and what she was doing (accessing social media, etc) during the proceeding rest period. (sorry, don't have a link, it was something I saw in recurrent) It didn't contain explicit quotes, as this investigation does, but they were certainly digging into her personal life pretty deeply.



I think you can pretty much consider privacy a thing of the past.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
She makes the observation that *her* total career experience with a captain is limited to one captain. This strongly points to her own inexperience, as does her language.

Her cell conversation points to an incident in which the captain was not in control of the aircraft, severely disoriented, in a state of panic, and afraid to fly again, yet he reportedly did and despite her awareness of it, carried on a lucid conversation, and elected to depart into the same conditions, in the same aircraft, with the same captain.

It's hard to wrap the mind around someone who has just had what they consider to be a life or death experience, and who has zero confidence in the captain with whom she is flying, carrying on a chatty conversation with not one, but two other people as they're flying in the same conditions that terrify them.
Yes it is.....and you can gain more insight if you read the entire report.
You will shake your head at it.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:19 PM   #8
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Yes it is.....and you can gain more insight if you read the entire report.
You will shake your head at it.
I did. A train wreck in the making, all around.

It's unfortunate that maturity isn't a requirement, or that a judgement standard is not established. It's a sliding scale across the continuum, of course, but the complete lack of either one should be a barrier to the cockpit.

I have no problem with the NTSB examining personal communications, or activity prior to or during the flight, especially where it's a major contributing factor to the event.

The NTSB has long looked at emotional state, rest, and events in our lives as contributing factors, and with good reason.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:28 PM   #9
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Coming soon to a legacy near you...
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intrepidcv11 View Post
Itís out. Not gonna post whole thing, but I find this interesting to say the least. NTSB used FOís personal IPhone to find a bunch of text messages about the captís less adequate judgment and instrument abilities. Maybe I havenít been paying attention, but this is the first Iíve seen something so personal cracked open by NTSB. Not sure how to feel about it, but clearly big brother is watching...

https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/61000-61...194/615487.pdf
This is the docket opening, not the final report yet.
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