Airline Pilot Central Forums - Ethiopian 737 MAX 8 crash

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Safety (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/)

- - Ethiopian 737 MAX 8 crash (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/120514-ethiopian-737-max-8-crash.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pangolin (Post 2779770)

Given an equal choice - 737 Max vs 737 - 800 which door would you walk through? We are not talking Max vs Motorcycle here.

I like flying the Max. Just flew it yesterday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4E Mx (Post 2779846)

Well, the 737-800 fatality rate is not looking too good right now.

Source? Post some real numbers if you are going make claims like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORDinary (Post 2780083)

Source? Post some real numbers if you are going make claims like that.

Are 2 airframes lost out of 350 delivered real enough for you? That is a .6% loss rate right there.

China grounds 737-MAX

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4E Mx (Post 2780092)

Are 2 airframes lost out of 350 delivered real enough for you? That is a .6% loss rate right there.

Perhaps you are referring to the 737 MAX-8, not the 737-800. Different planes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4E Mx (Post 2780092)

Are 2 airframes lost out of 350 delivered real enough for you? That is a .6% loss rate right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astaz (Post 2780108)

Perhaps you are referring to the 737 MAX-8, not the 737-800. Different planes.

350 total MAX deliveries. Some of those are other variants, but the MAX 8 looks to account for the largest number in service.

Very rough SWAG: 300 MAX 8 delivered, most but not all in service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_deliveries

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peacock (Post 2779674)

With bad AOA indications, could it be triggering a stall warning (and MCAS) while showing accurate airspeed, which leads the crew to believe the airspeed was unreliable?

I’m just a regional dude so I’m not at all familiar with the 737 at all. Does the MAX employ traditional AOA vanes or smart probes for AOA information? From what I’ve been able to ascertain from my google-fu, only one faulty AOA sensor is enough to trigger the system which is basically similar to a stick pusher that can not be manually overridden. It does seem risky to have a single point failure that can lead to severe pitch controllability issues.

Looks like Boeing is playing Tic Tac Toe. How many 737 crashes does it take before they have enough Xs on the world map to fix this flaw?

If these crashes are because of a faulty AOA sensor and an automatic flight control input of countering a perceived stall, it is an unsafe and poorly designed system. Just imagine you rotate on takeoff and suddenly the airplane pitches down because of a faulty AOA sensor. If Lockheed had this on C141s I would have splashed in the Indian Ocean when I had a faulty AOA on rotation.

This is very bad for Boeing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahlifer (Post 2780134)

My understanding of MCAS is that it drives nose-down trim in the event of a stall condition, and it was a fix required for certification of stall characteristics. Problem is it looks like one faulty sensor will trigger the MCAS, and I think also stall warnings. So you get a lot of distractions while MCAS is driving trim nose down. Might not notice it instantly, or might not recognize that it's a malfunction vice a legit reaction to stall (by either pilot or automation).

I can understand how the lion air guys got in trouble, not knowing what they were dealing with. At this point I would think all MAX pilots would be spring-loaded on this issue. If not yesterday, they should be today.

Should be a good time to buy Boeing stock