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Breath in those toxic fumes

Old 01-31-2020, 09:18 AM
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Default Breath in those toxic fumes

Boeing has been ignoring this problem far too long. avherald has a report of bad smells in the cockpit and cabin, and diversions caused thereby, every week. Seems like the courts are the only solution left.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...zmq-story.html
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:50 AM
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Meanwhile, at Airbus:

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Old 01-31-2020, 03:34 PM
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Subtitles available on this German TV item

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=jHGu83gC6V4
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Old 02-02-2020, 07:30 AM
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OK, Airbus ignores the problem as well. Doesn't mean we shouldn't fix it.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by aaatwood View Post
OK, Airbus ignores the problem as well. Doesn't mean we shouldn't fix it.

At what problem would that be, the design flaw they speak of?? Using bleed air to pressurize the cabin? Who ever came up with that stupid idea?
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Old 02-02-2020, 01:30 PM
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I read that during WWI a lot of the fighter plane engines (which generated all of 100hp) used castor oil as a lubricant. The exhaust from which would then hit the pilot in the face.

https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...4#rebelltitem4


not exactly toxic per se, but the $hits nonetheless. 񹙋񹙋񹙋​
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Old 02-03-2020, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Texasbound View Post
At what problem would that be, the design flaw they speak of?? Using bleed air to pressurize the cabin? Who ever came up with that stupid idea?
There does exists the potential for toxic fluids to get past seals and into the bleed air. Also demonstrated that some fluids can be altered by the heat of compression at the bleed stage to produce REALLY toxic chemicals (ie nerve gas).

In future designs cabin air will probably be produced by an electric pressurization/HVAC unit like the 787. Or at least will have some more robust filters.
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Old 02-03-2020, 12:09 PM
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Jet-turbine oil contains Tri-Cresyl Phosphate as a stabilizing additive. The problem: it acts like other organophosphates....it’s a nerve-agent.

If the front bearing-seals leak in a jet engine, that oil will be compressed with the air, turning to vapor, and delivered via normal bleed to the Packs...and the cabin.

The best solution would be to find a substitute additive that is not a nerve agent. Because stopping ALL oil leaks is mechanically impossible.

But it may be there is no other alternative.
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Old 02-03-2020, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer View Post
Jet-turbine oil contains Tri-Cresyl Phosphate as a stabilizing additive. The problem: it acts like other organophosphates....itís a nerve-agent.

If the front bearing-seals leak in a jet engine, that oil will be compressed with the air, turning to vapor, and delivered via normal bleed to the Packs...and the cabin.

The best solution would be to find a substitute additive that is not a nerve agent. Because stopping ALL oil leaks is mechanically impossible.

But it may be there is no other alternative.
Future planes don't need to use bleed air for the cabin.

Getting rid of certain additives might be good, but honestly I don't want to breath ANY complex hydrocarbons (especially after they've been cooked). I believe filters are a viable option, but they would expensive and heavy enough enough that it would take regulatory intervention to get them into widespread use (like fuel tank inerting retro-fits).
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Old 02-03-2020, 04:09 PM
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Default Turbocompressors

The B-707 used a turbocompressor for A/C (the small inlet above the cowl). It was driven by 16th stage bleed air, but provided outside air instead of bleed air to the cabin.

https://images.app.goo.gl/RXxmeprqwmwK2nYz9
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