Twin Cessna down in southern cali
10-17-2021, 02:11 PM
#12
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,501
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireSt...limb-80549686?
Lord, I hope not.
How about “Fly the damn airplane”?
As in.
1. Wings level
2. Pitch approximately three degrees nose up
3. Power as needed to establish a positive rate of climb above single engine minimum control speed
4….
5….
6….
Talking to somebody not in the aircraft ought to be fairly low on the priority list. Damn sure not the first thing.
Al Diehl, a former National Transportation Safety Board investigator, said the recording indicates the pilot was trying to deal with a major distraction or significant emergency on his own — breaking a basic rule that aviators should always tell controllers everything.
“The first thing you do when you’re in trouble is call, climb and confess — and he did not do any of the three,” Diehl said. “These are very basic rules that flight instructors tell their students.”
“The first thing you do when you’re in trouble is call, climb and confess — and he did not do any of the three,” Diehl said. “These are very basic rules that flight instructors tell their students.”
How about “Fly the damn airplane”?
As in.
1. Wings level
2. Pitch approximately three degrees nose up
3. Power as needed to establish a positive rate of climb above single engine minimum control speed
4….
5….
6….
Talking to somebody not in the aircraft ought to be fairly low on the priority list. Damn sure not the first thing.
10-17-2021, 03:21 PM
#13
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,021
It's absolutely ludicrous to assume what the pilot was dealing with, based on the recording. Idiotic. Especially for an NTSB board member or investigator.
Obviously the pilot's attention was committed to something; his responses were truncated, slurred, and clearly he was task saturated with something. Until the investigation is complete, it is entirely irresponsible to guess as to what it might be.
A significant income has proven many times over that simply because a well-paid attorney or physician can afford an aircraft, does not mean that he or she spends the time or effort to gain and maintain proficiency. The most dangerous component in the aircraft continues to be the pilot. Whether it's exhausting fuel or the pilots operational capabilities, the end of the line insofar as a pilot's abilities is the depletion of airspeed, altitude, and or ideas, often in close proximity to one another. This may have been aided by a mechanical malfunction, or simply a pilot so task saturated by scanning, interpreting, and correlating the inflight data, that he couldn't keep up. It's not a hard place to reach, in an airplane, and the pilot in the audio recording was barely able to formulate a mumbled response. Most of us will easily recognize the voice of someone whose attention is so consumed by a demand that the pilot can scarcely reply. Whether that demand, in this case, was caused by instrument loss or another problem, or whether the pilot was simply in over his head in trying to maintain control of a flyable airplane, will come out in the wash. Until then, speculation and guesswork is unprofessional.
Obviously the pilot's attention was committed to something; his responses were truncated, slurred, and clearly he was task saturated with something. Until the investigation is complete, it is entirely irresponsible to guess as to what it might be.
A significant income has proven many times over that simply because a well-paid attorney or physician can afford an aircraft, does not mean that he or she spends the time or effort to gain and maintain proficiency. The most dangerous component in the aircraft continues to be the pilot. Whether it's exhausting fuel or the pilots operational capabilities, the end of the line insofar as a pilot's abilities is the depletion of airspeed, altitude, and or ideas, often in close proximity to one another. This may have been aided by a mechanical malfunction, or simply a pilot so task saturated by scanning, interpreting, and correlating the inflight data, that he couldn't keep up. It's not a hard place to reach, in an airplane, and the pilot in the audio recording was barely able to formulate a mumbled response. Most of us will easily recognize the voice of someone whose attention is so consumed by a demand that the pilot can scarcely reply. Whether that demand, in this case, was caused by instrument loss or another problem, or whether the pilot was simply in over his head in trying to maintain control of a flyable airplane, will come out in the wash. Until then, speculation and guesswork is unprofessional.
10-17-2021, 07:22 PM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,274
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
Whether that demand, in this case, was caused by instrument loss or another problem, or whether the pilot was simply in over his head in trying to maintain control of a flyable airplane, will come out in the wash. Until then, speculation and guesswork is unprofessional.
I'm not speculating lightly, this was my best friend's colleague.
As much as Dan Gryder rubs most people the wrong way, he has one good point... the NTSB takes too long. Yes, of course the final definitive report has to take time but in many cases they could release interim info to get some early awareness of potential issues. Even AOPA has started to do early analyses reports after accidents.
By the time the board issues the final, and the FAA takes formal action (or not, whichever) it's often years. Unless you crash a couple brand new pax jets, then you might get quick results (especially if you can follow the lead of the rest of the world).
10-18-2021, 06:08 AM
#15
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,083
I usually enjoy watching Dan but this time he’s off the reservation.
He might as well have said Carbon monoxide incapacitation from a bad janitrol heater.
Or a space mounted Jewish controlled laser which is about as stupid as getting a vaccine involved.
He might as well have said Carbon monoxide incapacitation from a bad janitrol heater.
Or a space mounted Jewish controlled laser which is about as stupid as getting a vaccine involved.
10-18-2021, 05:14 PM
#16
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,021
Originally Posted by rickair7777
As much as Dan Gryder rubs most people the wrong way, he has one good point... the NTSB takes too long.
The NTSB has been doing its work for a long time, and when it comes to thorough investigations, is second to none.
Speculating off the cuff as to the cause after listening to an audio recording is irresponsible and idiotic, no matter how close one may be to the participants.
It's a bit like playing twenty questions with kids who only want to guess at the subject, rather than taking the time to figure it out. Is it the sky? is it that tree? Is it this rock?
No, it's not.
We don't guess at runway length. We don't guess at fuel burn, duration, reserve, or requirements. We don't guess at weather. We don't guess at fatigue, currency, mechanical condition, performance, etc. We know.
I don't speculate. I know. Or I wait until I know. Gathering information is one thing. Guessing is another. It's unprofessional and inappropriate. There's a reason that a full investigation and the attendant report isn't written overnight.
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