Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Safety
Rouge Got Into Direct Law! >

Rouge Got Into Direct Law!

Search

Notices
Safety Accidents, suggestions on improving safety, etc

Rouge Got Into Direct Law!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-30-2023 | 10:34 AM
  #1  
rickair7777's Avatar
Thread Starter
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,923
Likes: 697
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default Rouge Got Into Direct Law!

https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-...messages-2023/

A321, nice work getting it on the ground uneventfully. Sounds like airplane induced, not operator induced.

Alternate law is very rare, and takes more than one thing going wrong... direct law is downhill from there. I don't know and have never heard of anyone personally who's been in direct law.
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 11:06 AM
  #2  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 788
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-...messages-2023/

A321, nice work getting it on the ground uneventfully. Sounds like airplane induced, not operator induced.

Alternate law is very rare, and takes more than one thing going wrong... direct law is downhill from there. I don't know and have never heard of anyone personally who's been in direct law.
Never flown the Bus. I know it’s bad, but what does Direct law mean? What systems don’t you have?
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 11:35 AM
  #3  
rickair7777's Avatar
Thread Starter
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,923
Likes: 697
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default

Originally Posted by Broncofan
Never flown the Bus. I know it’s bad, but what does Direct law mean? What systems don’t you have?
As you go from normal to alternate to direct, you lose protections along the way. In direct law you have none, you move the stick and the control surface moves proportionally. Since there's no mechanical feedback in bus FBW you have to be careful. You also have to trim manually with the wheel.

Law degradation can be caused by a variety of system failures, but it takes multiple failures to even get to alternate.
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 04:24 PM
  #4  
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,150
Likes: 51
From: Volleyball Player
Default

Originally Posted by Broncofan
Never flown the Bus. I know it’s bad, but what does Direct law mean? What systems don’t you have?
Its how every non-bus pilot flies
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 05:07 PM
  #5  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 788
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes
Its how every non-bus pilot flies
haha I was thinking it but didn’t say it
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 06:33 PM
  #6  
rickair7777's Avatar
Thread Starter
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,923
Likes: 697
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes
Its how every non-bus pilot flies
True to a certain extent, but other transport categories have their own protections as well, either artificial or just natural feedback.

In direct law you can stall or break the airplane with your wrist, without any warning or tactile feedback at all.
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 06:57 PM
  #7  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,588
Likes: 4
From: MD-88 FO
Default

So for non airbus folk, anytime an airbus is in alternate law and you out the gear down it automatically goes into direct law. No further failures required.
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 08:26 PM
  #8  
TeamSasquatch's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes;
Its how every non-bus pilot flies
Lol, that made my night. I was thinking the same thing. I do get what Rick is saying now, you don’t have the feedback… but at first….. 😂
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 08:45 PM
  #9  
Disinterested Third Party
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 74
Default

One of the most challenging things I did in a simulator was flying the 747 classic with the feel turned off.

Flying in direct is not the same as what everyone else normally does, and all the Boeings, McDonnel Douglas, Lockheed, have featured artificial feel and feedback built into the flight controls to give the illusion that the pilot can feel the control. Turn that off, especially at high altitude, and it's quite easy to overcontrol the airplane.
Reply
Old 01-30-2023 | 11:10 PM
  #10  
WHACKMASTER's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 283
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Default

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes
Its how every non-bus pilot flies
You beat me to it.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Hoof Hearted
Major
104
07-08-2015 01:15 PM
trent890
Charter
17
04-15-2012 06:39 AM
Box Boy
Cargo
7
06-06-2011 02:34 AM
NoHaz
Cargo
6
04-04-2010 09:21 PM
MikeB525
Regional
1
02-23-2007 09:55 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices