Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Safety
Snapchatting prior to crash >

Snapchatting prior to crash


Notices
Safety Accidents, suggestions on improving safety, etc

Snapchatting prior to crash

Old 09-15-2023, 10:20 AM
  #1  
Disinterested Third Party
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,207
Default Snapchatting prior to crash

I don't recall this one discussed here, and on its face, seems obvious in outcome, and irrelevant to the operations in which most here might engage: a young, inexperienced pilot crashed doing pipeline patrol in a single engine Cessna. Central to his crash and death, however, was his occupation with posting to social media while doing relatively low-altitude flight. The twist may be that the crux of the report is the pilot's video posted online, which can't be found, because it was snapchat, and the video disappeared within 24 hours. The focus is on something that can't be shown, viewed, or found.

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/a...ort/103091/pdf

The NTSB final is out. a Cessna 182 crashed, piloted by a 23 year old young man with about 650 hours total time. He was working, following a surface feature (pipeline), but distracted by his posting to snapchat a video of his flight...which he'd been conducting at 500' AGL and below. He struck a guywire on a tower. The most obvious assessment of this pointless death, wrought on by the stupidity of look-at-me posting online while flying the airplane, is simply, "duh," and "well, of course." However, such actions are not restricted to low time social butterflies in Cessna cockpits.

I've seen similar behavior in large, transport category airplanes; pilots trying to film their own approach to land, for example, and not just rare, isolated cases. Pilots doing soduku or playing solitaire on their ipad or other material, taking pictures, etc. We're all familiar with the crew overflying their destination while on their laptop, and we should all be aware of the hazards of distractions in the wrong places (distractions in the cockpit are generally the wrong place). Distracted drivers are a well-known hazard, and I suspect that most of us have seen wild, egregious safety violations on the road with drivers texting, putting on makeup, and doing all kinds of other things, other than driving the vehicle. Same flying. We have basic policies about unnecessary conversation or non safety-of-flight activities below 10,000: sterile cockpit. There does seem to be something special about being watched, whether it's trying to impress someone in the occkpit, someone on the ground, or fans online on social media.

Clearly it would be best to get on the ground and sort it it out: edit that gopro footage and do something with it in the hotel room or at home, rather than trying to process video in flight. Trying to do that, and post it online, while in flight, may be a whole different level of naive stupidity...but again, it's not relegated only to the young, or the inexperienced. I witnessed a senior pilot, not far from retirement, attempt to fly an approach with one hand while filming it with his cell, with the other hand. Clearly stupid, clearly illegal, but there are shades of stupid, and many of us are guilty of engaging in some level of distraction, even if just a violation of the sterile cockpit. Was that call for us? Missed item on checklist? Most are learning opportunities (won't do that again), sometimes more.

Many years ago I awakened in intensive care following a parachute mishap. Like all events, there was a chain, and there were the traditional holes in the cheese to line up, but it came down to me: I packed a malfunction. I was setting the brakes on the canopy, part of the packing process, and was called away to discuss an upcoming load on a jump. I returned, picked up where I left off, but ended up with one brake on the ram-air canopy set, the other not, and that set in motion what followed. There were other holes in the cheese; high winds, steep, mountainous terrain, exit point less than Ideal, round reserve, and other elements, but the bottom line is that I fell victim to my own lapse. My policy was always that if I was distracted or had to step away form a pack job, I'd shake out the parachute and start over at the beginning. That one time, that one day, i didn't. I picked up where I left off, violating my own policy, and it nearly killed me. The 23 year old pilot in the Cessna, subject of this thread, probably knew better, too, but stupidity hurts, and while I was fortunate to only wind up in intensive care, the subject pilot lost his life. Mine wasn't a cell phone, but today cell phones, ipads, and other devices are ubiquitous. They're in every cockpit, and the distractions they offer are quite tempting. The pilot in this case posted his video online less than a minute before impact, but he'd already crossed over the pipeline and into the hazard area, where he ultimately crashed.

The vast majority of the time, when we succumb to some distraction, intentional or unintentional, the moment passes without penalty; we may learn, or it may pass without a second thought. I'm not without guilt, as are, I suspect, a great many others, if not everyone. I don't post online while flying, but when it comes to sterile cockpits, distractions, and excursions from where we should be, few, if any, are without sin. It's easy to dismiss a kid in a Cessna as a one-off and an irrelevant outlier, but I submit it's really not that far removed from where any of us live, or work.
JohnBurke is offline  
Old 09-15-2023, 12:41 PM
  #2  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,754
Default

On long flights you have to balance distractions with the need to stay mentally engaged (ie awake).

You can only shoot the breeze for so many hours with most other pilots.

I prefer reading. Unlike movies or games, YOU set the pace and can pause at any moment without feeling pressure, however trivial, that you're going to miss something.

But I'm not going to tell anyone they can't watch a movie or play a game on a long flight.


Now using phones in critical phases... yeah that's bad jus-jus. My buddy who got fired years ago can tell you all about it. There's a type of person who thinks THEY can multitask without any risk. Same geniuses who run down pedestrians in crosswalks and rear-end cars waiting at red lights. Don't bring that to aviation.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 09-15-2023, 01:03 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,661
Default

The only audio pilots on a duty seat should hear ought come out of their audio control panel. With the exception of music/sports radio. No to that also. Get instagrammed watching the Jets clobber the Colts on a missed handoff if you don’t believe me.
METO Guido is offline  
Old 09-15-2023, 06:01 PM
  #4  
Disinterested Third Party
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,207
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
On long flights you have to balance distractions with the need to stay mentally engaged (ie awake).

You can only shoot the breeze for so many hours with most other pilots.
I wholeheartedly agree, to a point. On a long oceanic leg with hours of darkness, and only SELCAL, 123.45, and 121.5, there's not a lot to be distracted from on the radio, and music in the headset contributes to alertness. Not necessarily in the terminal area, though.

Attempting to post videos to snapchat while maneuvering with obstacles, below 500' may not be the best time to seek entertainment.
JohnBurke is offline  
Old 09-15-2023, 06:58 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 4,005
Default

Originally Posted by JohnBurke
I wholeheartedly agree, to a point. On a long oceanic leg with hours of darkness, and only SELCAL, 123.45, and 121.5, there's not a lot to be distracted from on the radio, and music in the headset contributes to alertness. Not necessarily in the terminal area, though.

Attempting to post videos to snapchat while maneuvering with obstacles, below 500' may not be the best time to seek entertainment.
Yeah, not a lot of radio towers you have to worry about on NOPAC routes.
JamesNoBrakes is offline  
Old 09-15-2023, 07:00 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,661
Default

False. Believe what you may. You’re paid, well, to work. To mind the store. To keep the watch. Plenty to do on any crossing. Give your seat mate a pause. Ck. the breakers. Pee break, Intermission, whatever you want to call it. Engage entertainment devices on designated rest only. Never while performing duties of PF, PNF. Unsat by standards. Liable by jury.

But not to worry. Steaming cockpit cam is definitely on the next, shoe to drop shortlist. Scarcely one big boo boo away.
METO Guido is offline  
Old 09-15-2023, 10:48 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2021
Posts: 335
Default

Originally Posted by METO Guido
False. Believe what you may. You’re paid, well, to work. To mind the store. To keep the watch. Plenty to do on any crossing. Give your seat mate a pause. Ck. the breakers. Pee break, Intermission, whatever you want to call it. Engage entertainment devices on designated rest only. Never while performing duties of PF, PNF. Unsat by standards. Liable by jury.

But not to worry. Steaming cockpit cam is definitely on the next, shoe to drop shortlist. Scarcely one big boo boo away.
Oh hey, it's "that guy".
4dalulz is offline  
Old 09-16-2023, 01:22 AM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: MD-88 FO
Posts: 1,568
Default

Originally Posted by 4dalulz
Oh hey, it's "that guy".
yeah, did he just say it’s ok to nap in the seat (check the circuit breakers) and not to stay alert with some form of entertainment?
Myfingershurt is offline  
Old 09-16-2023, 05:00 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,661
Default

Originally Posted by 4dalulz
Oh hey, it's "that guy".
Yeah. Next LOFT, spin around & tell the JS grooving to Dua Lipa helps stay alert.Walk screwups backwards. Proceed on whatever prefab excuse sounds silliest.

“Delta 15 Shanwick….”
METO Guido is offline  
Old 09-18-2023, 08:41 AM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,661
Default

Originally Posted by JohnBurke
The vast majority of the time, when we succumb to some distraction, intentional or unintentional, the moment passes without penalty; we may learn, or it may pass without a second thought. I'm not without guilt, as are, I suspect, a great many others, if not everyone. I don't post online while flying, but when it comes to sterile cockpits, distractions, and excursions from where we should be, few, if any, are without sin. It's easy to dismiss a kid in a Cessna as a one-off and an irrelevant outlier, but I submit it's really not that far removed from where any of us live, or work.
^^^Well said. Current to the subculture.

Tom scans the overhead breaker panel. Jerry watches Holes of Cheese III. Flounder returns and swaps seats with Tom, who tossed & turned all day/night in instead of tanking any REM sleep. Tom’s volume is set too low for his relief officer. Jerry finishes the picture show and asks Flounder if he can go take a squirt & fetch dinner. Tom AND Jerry’s speakers are off. Meanwhile, something got overlooked hours back that now, in a chain of unhappy coincidence, becomes a reportable event. Same scenario but delete the ‘just staying alert’ distraction. Little if any risk or need for awol excuses, regrets. ASAP event review committees cannot accept suspicious accounts indicating the possibility of willful FOM ignorance or deliberate deviations. Who’s fooling who?
METO Guido is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ToiletDuck
Safety
5
08-08-2012 09:04 PM
BOGSAT
Regional
1
12-14-2009 08:43 PM
Moose
Hangar Talk
8
08-30-2009 09:00 PM
GravellyPointer
Major
17
04-08-2007 07:05 AM
FDXDLW
Regional
4
10-14-2006 08:44 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices