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- - FAA Rest Rules (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/63552-faa-rest-rules.html)

somethings better then nothing! 40 years of the old rules, at least we can move in a direction and hopefully in a few years down the road move the bar of safety up a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brocc15 (Post 1105803)

I actually thought most of the rules were fair and realistic with the exception of of two major things:

1. The exclusion of cargo carriers
2. Two YEARS to implement (really?!)

The un-reducible 10 hours of rest is a big win, in my opinion, along with the reduced duty days. I remember just how exhausting those 16 hour 5 leg days were, any every time I have been reduced to 8 hours of rest I am just miserable. The 30 hours rest required in 7 days is also a big plus, being scheduled to end at 2 pm and duty in the next day at 2 pm, does NOT make someone feel like they had a day to rest and recuperate. I think that extra 6 hours makes a big difference.

Before I say the following I will say I am not and have never been management: Safety and cost will ALWAYS have to be balanced. As someone else said to me once, the day after 9/11 was probably the safest day in aviation history, but cost the airlines a lot of money! So in an attempt to be as objective as I can, I actually think most of these rulings are fair.

Interesting assessment. I am curious, can you go further into your knowledge of the un-reducible 10 hours of rest? It doesn't seem very concrete other than "cannot go below 8 hours of rest time". So is the 10 hour part misleading? In theory the 8 hours (presumably at the hotel) may be better than what we have now but not as good as the 9 hours behind the door that was tossed around before. If its 8 hours rest, this still doesn't allow for unwinding/falling asleep then shower/meet in lobby the next day. So if you are like me and cannot fall asleep immediately we are now back down to around 6 to 6.5 hours of actual sleep. Whats your take?

One thing is certain - pilots will beeeotch no matter what happens, up to and including winning the lotto, because of the onerous burden of paying about 50% in taxes...

When it comes to the 10 hours of rest, your schedule cannot show less than 10 hours after blockin till report.. As it stands now, your schedule can show you with a minimum 8 hours and unless you are at a carrier that actually has an 8 hour behind the door rule, could leave you with much less when you consider transportation etc.

So with a normal 30 minute "debrief" added in there, (which is normally 10 minutes to say goodbye) and normal drive times, this should greatly increase the rest on a short layo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer (Post 1105814)

If you recall in the NPRM, there was a whole section dedicated to the min rest required behind the door and then the time from leaving the jet to the time you got in the room, as well as the time to transport back to the airplane the next day. There was all of this talk of it not being duty and not being rest. As I see it, in the new ruling they got rid of a lot of that grey area crap and went with a hard 10 hrs with no less than 8 hrs behind the door that is dedicated to rest.

As a result of this, many of the nine hr layos will now be 30+ due to marketing needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1105841)

If you recall in the NPRM, there was a whole section dedicated to the min rest required behind the door and then the time from leaving the jet to the time you got in the room, as well as the time to transport back to the airplane the next day. There was all of this talk of it not being duty and not being rest. As I see it, in the new ruling they got rid of a lot of that grey area crap and went with a hard 10 hrs with no less than 8 hrs behind the door that is dedicated to rest.

As a result of this, many of the nine hr layos will now be 30+ due to marketing needs.

Or a DH in or out mid-day to fly the next morning or fly the rest of a duty day.... Might make up for all the Caribbean stuff that will go away that used to DH one way and fly the other....

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1105841)

Good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1105841)

This is OK as long as we have/get the contract language to pay us for our time......

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1105849)

Or a DH in or out mid-day to fly the next morning or fly the rest of a duty day.... Might make up for all the Caribbean stuff that will go away that used to DH one way and fly the other....

That too, but then you are dealing with needed a crew for that early launch.

We see this in certain cities now where a 9 hrs layo does not work, you end up with a 30+ hr layo and take the first flight out. You generally see this on the equipment that is either larger or smaller than the rest of the equipment that flies in there though out the day. I can think of CMH, RSW, PIT, and SAT on the 757.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWA320pilot (Post 1105862)

This is OK as long as we have/get the contract language to pay us for our time......

I am all for that.

The dinner and a move deals will be what the airline is after. Problem is that they are covered under the anything over 8 hr deal right now. Get rid of that little nugget and there are many dominoes that will fall.

Suffice to say, we are going to have to be really careful how we craft any modifications to our language.