Ajax

Earlier today on the dayshift, we were landing 04R (with some overflow to rwy 11 as well) while the winds were fluctuating between 240 to 300, and sustained 10kt+ with the ocasional gust to 15 or so. Needless to say we had a few go arounds, but it took a while before enough pilots complained about it, and forced our traffic management, and the tower to make the runway change to 22L. In the meantime, a few declared minimum fuel due to the delays caused by both the go arounds, and the airborne holding needed to complete the change.

This is not an isolated incident, but unfortunately rather common here at the New York Tracon, though normally it happens more often when we're landing 22L with a north wind, because the tower prefers the southwest configuration since it allows a more efficient operation. One of the many problems with this is that whatever EWR configuration is, it forces TEB to switch accordingly, and while you may be perfectly within your max tailwind component range in your DH8-E145-B737 etc, the poor little guy flying a C172 coming to land at TEB with that 10kt+ tailwind has a much rougher time. We should never ever compromise safety for efficiency, and this issue somewhat crosses that line.

As a controller, I have no power whatsoever to make the runway change call. Both the tower and TMU are the ones involved in that decision making process. I've complained to my supervisors over, and over for many years, and it usually takes some go arounds, or pilots refusing to accept a runway until they're forced to make the change. The standart replies I usually get are: "the wind is forecasted to change", or "the wind is in the ATIS, and if they check in with the ATIS code, and don't complain then its ok". Another favorite line is "they can land just fine with a 10kt tailwind", or 'the companies (UAL) want us to push runway 11 with a 10kt+ tailwind"

If you pilots routinely decline to accept those 10kt+ tailwinds, then perhaps they'll be more inclined to make the change as soon as the winds change, even if its at the detriment of efficiency. They're usually reluctant to make the change because it involves delays both on the ground, and airborne as well. If the wind shifts several times during the day, it could have a huge impact on overall efficiency to switch back and forth, so a lot of times we eat it as long as pilots don't complain, or we don't get too many go arounds.

I pray to God that nobody ever runs off the end of a runway because of this, and I definitely do not want to find myself in an accident NTSB hearing trying to justify why I cleared an aircraft for approach to a runway with a known 10kt+ tailwind.

I'd love to hear the other side of the story and how you guys feel about it.

FlyJSH

If you have no power to switch runways and you feel there is an issue, keep issuing wind checks, solicited or not. At least then YOU will have some coverage (kinda like when FSS says VFR flight not recommended) if somebody has a bad day.

Rebuilt

Some aircraft have up to a 15 kt tailwind limitation - with restrictions.

JamesNoBrakes

Given a 10kt or more tailwind, it doesn't take a hell of a lot much else going wrong to get into big trouble.

IDIOTPILOT

Curious, if we check on and say unable 4R/22L for tailwinds, what will you do? Will you switch the whole flow cause one person asks?

Ajax

if its just one, usually no, they wont. If there are multiple aircraft complaining, and refusing to take it, they will make the change (as it was the case today).

Yoda2

Exactly, and it's not just the bug smashers either. It can be an issue for any airplane; and just not properly accounting for T/O or LDG distance with a direct tailwind alone. If you have an aircraft stuck at the gate with blown fuse plugs, that can cause a nice delay and backup as well. I was non reving in a B-1900 once and I thought the PF was going to lose it with a stiff quartering tailwind, it was pretty ugly... One of the main reasons the issue goes under reported by pilots is that many Ops Specs or flight manuals will state a limitation and if an issue is made after choosing to land there could be trouble... One could also be cited for careless and wreckless operation I suppose. Thanks for the reminder and heads up. BTW, Do you ever get any backlash/resistance from a conflicting tower when attempting to initiate a runway change?

DirectTo

The Dash-8 200/300 (at least) are good to 20 knot tailwinds with a whole laundry list of equipment working properly. I did it several times, 17 knots being the highest, including a few on 11 at EWR.

Would never, ever consider it in a jet.

Ajax

Yes. EWR tower does not like to switch from 22's to 4's, and there is plenty of backlash/resistance to switch, specially if they got a departure push coming.

Yoda2

Not familiar with, flying, the two aircraft mentioned but will take your word for it and was probably done safely, but you probably considered component and gusts as well... That can make it game over in a heartbeat...