How do we know they did not do that? Obviously if they did, they didn't have the F/D or autopilot hooked up to it. Has the NTSB said what type of approach was loaded in the FMS? I did hear Ms. Hersman say they had disconnected the Autopilot at 1,600'.

The question is, why? If, as we have heard from many sources, the Asians like to use all the automation, all the time, and they were not doing a last minute runway change, (NTSB said it was a 17 mile straight in to 28L) why did they disconnect the A/P at 1,600'? Was it not doing what they wanted it to do?

Or was he just hand flying for practice?

Or was there a wrong approach in the FMS? I.e. maybe they didn't interpret the ATIS correctly, or missed the note about the ILS being out, and loaded the ILS approach, and pushed APP thinking it would capture the LOC/GS, and it didn't, because the ILS was out that day. Then they got high, so he disconnected the A/P, maybe clicked off the Auto throttles as well, and pulled the boards up, threw the gear out, and dove down to capture...something.

Then maybe the LCA went heads down to try to load -something- into the FMS, to get some type of vertical guidance, while the pilot in the left seat was hand flying it down, to low and slow, and he didn't realize the auto throttles had been clicked off?

There are so many possibilities, until we get more info from the NTSB (and did they get silenced all of a sudden? Haven't heard much lately) we won't know exactly what happened, but those two pilots know. The question is, will they ever tell us the truth?

PF in OE... meant PM was 'heads up' on visual...ALL 'heads up' on visual meant...they missed A/T retard to Idle.:o

u do that on finals...don't bother finding another job...u will find ur grave to bury in:cool:

on that note thinking out loud...possibilities of BOEING going standard with HUDs on 777/767/747 fleets.

wouldn't be surprised if NTSB comes up with this recommendation after 214.

Having used one for a couple of thousand hours, the HUD is the answer. But, it isn't automatically learned and you still need to know how to fly, in the first place.

GF

I've never flown an airplane with the HUD, but I've listened to many of our 737 drivers who claim to have become, "HUD Cripples". I'm guessing that means they can't fly without it? Must be good stuff!

Not sure I want to get addicted to that too, I mean, auto throttle addiction is bad enough! But I'll wait until I actually get to use one, to 'see' if I like it or not.

How would you miss throttles going to idle (no matter where your head is)? In a Boeing aircraft, they still move (Thank goodness). If your hands are where they are supposed to be, unless your arm is paralyzed you CAN'T miss them moving.

If you're assuming the AT will always do its job and fly with both hands on the yoke, they might as well not move or even be displayed.

And yes they can be missed even though they move. Seen it many many times.

I'm not sure if I'm following your statement, so excuse me if I'm not interpreting it correctly.

PF in OE should not mean PM is "heads up" (attention out of cockpit) for the approach. IMO, no matter what kind of approach is being flown and what phase of currency the PF is, the PM needs to be monitoring everything. Something as basic as airspeed management is always a priority for both pilots, no matter what the approach is. Obviously on a special approach like a Cat-2/3, autoland, etc. there are specific things to monitor at specific times.

Gentlemen read the comments in context of 214...we r speculating on their deviations.

Who here actually likes the idea of HUD's..? Just curious... Never used one, can't comment aside from perception, but I don't know how much I like the idea of them. I honestly think it would distract me PERSONALLY...