Asiana 777 Crash at SFO
07-06-2013, 03:09 PM
#61
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Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
What are you basing such speculation on? Pretty sure the 777 calculates the approach speeds for you, so that's probably out. G/S was NOTAMed out, so unlikely they would try to use it for autoland. Even if they tried, there'd be enough bells and whistles well prior to the overrun to let them know that it was a bad idea.Eye witnesses that have aviation knowledge said higher than usual nose attitude, leads me to guess slower approach speed, plus easy mistake on not reading notams paired with a clear visual day which makes pilots put their guard down.
Again, just speculation and me wanting to learn from this.
I'm an RJ guy that flies in and out of SFO so this incident hits home for me.
07-06-2013, 03:13 PM
#62
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07-06-2013, 03:25 PM
#64
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Posts: 3,866
Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot
This IS STRICTLY SPECULATION. It appears the fire is concentrated in the overhead bin area of the mid fuselage (over wing) area and may have spread from there. I'm not sure it was "fuel related." Was the airplane on fire when it landed ? Tower tapes should show if an emergency was declared.
Last edited by APC225; 07-06-2013 at 04:07 PM.
07-06-2013, 03:36 PM
#65
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While the ILS is out, they are running simultaneous precision GPS approaches at SFO, there's an FAA notice out about this (changes ops specs).
NOTICE
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
N 8900.216
National Policy
Effective Date: 5/22/13
Cancellation Date: 5/22/14
SUBJ:
OpSpec/MSpec A002, Definitions and Abbreviations; and OpSpec/MSpec/LOA C052, Straight-In Non-Precision, APV, and Category I Precision Approach and Landing Minima—All Airports
1. Purpose of this Notice. This notice provides revised guidance for Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certificate-holding district offices (CHDO) and principal operations inspectors (POI) assigned to operators conducting airplane operations under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 91 subpart K (part 91K), 121, 125 (including the Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA) 125M operators), 129, and 135. This notice amends operations specifications (OpSpecs) A002 and C052. They are amended as follows:
a. OpSpec A002: Added the following Area Navigation (RNAV) (Global Positioning System (GPS)) precision runway monitor (PRM) definition: RNAV (GPS) PRM: RNAV (GPS) approach that may be substituted for an instrument landing system (ILS) PRM or localizer-type directional aid (LDA) PRM approach and is procedurally equivalent.
b. OpSpec C052: Amended FAA Order 8900.1 guidance to include RNAV (GPS) PRM approaches and added a non-mandatory RNAV (GPS) PRM selectable to the OpSpec.
2. Audience. The primary audience for this notice is FAA CHDOs and POIs assigned to operators conducting airplane operations under parts 91K, 121, 125 (including the LODA 125M operators), 129, and 135. The secondary audience includes Flight Standards divisions including their branches in the FAA regions and at FAA headquarters (HQ).
3. Where You Can Find This Notice. You can find this notice on the MyFAA employee Web site at https://employees.faa.gov/tools_reso...rders_notices/. Inspectors can access this notice through the Flight Standards Information Management System (FSIMS) at http://fsims.avs.faa.gov. Operators may find this information on the FAA’s Web site at Flight Standards Information System (FSIMS). This notice is available to the public at Orders & Notices.
4. Background. For about three months in mid-year 2013, the FAA will render the LDA for runway 28L and the ILS for runway 28L out of service (OTS) at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) due to runway construction. The loss of these navigation aids will eliminate the ability for SFO to conduct PRM approaches during simultaneous offset instrument approach (SOIA) operations. The FAA plans to publish RNAV (GPS) PRM procedures prior to this navigation aid shutdown. These procedures will mirror the OTS approach courses so that SOIA can be conducted during the construction period. After the construction is complete, the RNAV (GPS) PRM approaches will be available in the event of either a scheduled or unplanned loss of a ground-based navigation aid. They will also be available as an alternate method for conducting a SOIA approach when requested by the pilot and cleared to do so by air traffic control (ATC). The changes in OpSpecs to include RNAV (GPS) PRM are presently applicable only at SFO, but may in the future apply to any location where closely-spaced approaches are conducted, and where RNAV (GPS) PRM‑approaches are published.
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
N 8900.216
National Policy
Effective Date: 5/22/13
Cancellation Date: 5/22/14
SUBJ:
OpSpec/MSpec A002, Definitions and Abbreviations; and OpSpec/MSpec/LOA C052, Straight-In Non-Precision, APV, and Category I Precision Approach and Landing Minima—All Airports
1. Purpose of this Notice. This notice provides revised guidance for Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certificate-holding district offices (CHDO) and principal operations inspectors (POI) assigned to operators conducting airplane operations under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 91 subpart K (part 91K), 121, 125 (including the Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA) 125M operators), 129, and 135. This notice amends operations specifications (OpSpecs) A002 and C052. They are amended as follows:
a. OpSpec A002: Added the following Area Navigation (RNAV) (Global Positioning System (GPS)) precision runway monitor (PRM) definition: RNAV (GPS) PRM: RNAV (GPS) approach that may be substituted for an instrument landing system (ILS) PRM or localizer-type directional aid (LDA) PRM approach and is procedurally equivalent.
b. OpSpec C052: Amended FAA Order 8900.1 guidance to include RNAV (GPS) PRM approaches and added a non-mandatory RNAV (GPS) PRM selectable to the OpSpec.
2. Audience. The primary audience for this notice is FAA CHDOs and POIs assigned to operators conducting airplane operations under parts 91K, 121, 125 (including the LODA 125M operators), 129, and 135. The secondary audience includes Flight Standards divisions including their branches in the FAA regions and at FAA headquarters (HQ).
3. Where You Can Find This Notice. You can find this notice on the MyFAA employee Web site at https://employees.faa.gov/tools_reso...rders_notices/. Inspectors can access this notice through the Flight Standards Information Management System (FSIMS) at http://fsims.avs.faa.gov. Operators may find this information on the FAA’s Web site at Flight Standards Information System (FSIMS). This notice is available to the public at Orders & Notices.
4. Background. For about three months in mid-year 2013, the FAA will render the LDA for runway 28L and the ILS for runway 28L out of service (OTS) at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) due to runway construction. The loss of these navigation aids will eliminate the ability for SFO to conduct PRM approaches during simultaneous offset instrument approach (SOIA) operations. The FAA plans to publish RNAV (GPS) PRM procedures prior to this navigation aid shutdown. These procedures will mirror the OTS approach courses so that SOIA can be conducted during the construction period. After the construction is complete, the RNAV (GPS) PRM approaches will be available in the event of either a scheduled or unplanned loss of a ground-based navigation aid. They will also be available as an alternate method for conducting a SOIA approach when requested by the pilot and cleared to do so by air traffic control (ATC). The changes in OpSpecs to include RNAV (GPS) PRM are presently applicable only at SFO, but may in the future apply to any location where closely-spaced approaches are conducted, and where RNAV (GPS) PRM‑approaches are published.
07-06-2013, 03:37 PM
#66
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 792
Pure Speculation But....
...I predict there was nothing wrong with the aircraft. With the GS OTS, they flew a LOC app and got too low. A VNAV app would have given them a "glide path" to reference. Case closed...
07-06-2013, 03:39 PM
#68
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Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 249
All Asiana 777's are 200ER variants. Some are fairly new. Does this version of the 777 have Integrated Approach Navigation? If so, then it is possible the crew were flying the LOC 28L using IAN. If the crew selected the approach from the FMS and then selected APP mode, it would be very similar to an ILS approach. Maybe they thought they were doing an ILS, the only difference would be G/P as the pitch mode instead of G/S. Again, just trying to figure out why a 777-200ER on a beautiful day in SFO could land that short......
07-06-2013, 03:48 PM
#70
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Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: Furloughed
Posts: 5
Looks like a case of being high with a setup of an unstable approach. Witness on the flight reported both engines spoiling up before impact. Pilots being tired, GS out and being high on profile sounds like the recipe for an accident. Prayers to the people and families involved.
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