There have been a couple failed attempts to blow up a jet over the North Atlantic FYI.

It is not impossible that a satellite somewhere picked up and image that may shed some light, so to speak.

Also, China might not have been the ultimate destination. I wonder how many people on any given flight, if upon review, would have problems with the passport. Having two on board is pretty suspicious though, and I'm sure some good detective work is going on behind the scenes.

Thinking back to TWA 800, I remember the three debris fields, but can't remember any description of an "oil slick" on the surface. As probably most of you recall, during the early investigation there were a lot of theories (and I guess some still remain) of a missile launch or other explosion. The center tank was officially deemed the first explosion with additional "fireballs" from the wing tanks. It seems that a narrow oil slick presence would imply, if from this craft, that it was somewhat intact until impact, or at least portions of it.

About the fake passports...

RiskandForecast.com | Risk Watch | At least 10 passengers of crashed Air India plane had fake passports

Not sure why the fake passports has everyone spooled up. I mean we have illegal aliens crossing our US border by the thousands and nobody is loosing sleep. The 9-11 hijackers had legally issued documents, even if they were "overstays", they had legal/legit docs.

The fake passport issue could possibly be explained by various foreign nationals seeking to leave their homeland and/or conceal their identity for other reasons. I believe those with the fake passports were Chinese, a country that imposes many restrictions on freedom on its citizens. Multiple pax with fake passports was probably one group who all knew each other and for whatever reason did not want their true identities documented as traveling.

Could this be a terrorist event (the crash)? Maybe, lets wait for the facts. Will the fake passports be related to the crash ? I highly doubt it.

Just my opinion.

Agreed. I believe the passports were mostly a coincidence. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands of people flying on illegal documents daily for whatever reason.

I think having a discussion is healthy, but the media is really clouding this accident considering at this point there is absolutely zero evidence of what happened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satpak77 (Post 1598464)

Not sure why the fake passports has everyone spooled up. I mean we have illegal aliens crossing our US border by the thousands and nobody is loosing sleep. The 9-11 hijackers had legally issued documents, even if they were "overstays" they had legal/legit docs.

---

You honestly do not see the difference between "running" across the border between Mexico and boarding a plane with a stolen ID.
I don't think many "running" across the border even carry false ID.
Two passports stolen in the same vicinity and being only two of seven passengers booking a code-share flight.
If eyebrows are not lifting at this issue, then who knows what will catch the attention of the investigators.

I'm sure there are members here who routinely fly through Kuala Lumpur; how likely is it that something could have gotten through ? Is it a pretty secure airport ? Are there sit stamps ?

If it keeps being brought up, it might as well be asked.

Common misconception. I lived in a border state for the last 11 years and no, illegals are not crossing the borders in that way. The border security has improved dramatically and by and large, people in Mexico are not walking across the border to find a better way of life like back in the 80s, due to the jobs, technology at the border, increase in staffing, and so on. What we do have is a population of illegal immigrants living in the US, but they are not streaming over the border like many want to believe. Smuggling on the other hand IS an important issue.

The news stated the co-pilot had only 2,800 hours total time.

The reports of 4 fake passports is being denied by all major other news outlets, not sure how this site reports 10+ passengers with fake documents. Not saying it is not a possibility, but there has been absolutely no other word on this elsewhere.

This is my impression too. A big issue is now what to do with hybrid families harboring an illegal member or two, particularly young ones, which is more of a policy issue regarding naturalization / immigration priorities. But we digress...

Pretty common with Asian and European carriers.

First it was 2, then it was 4, then 10.

I honestly don't buy any of it for now.

Multiple people using stolen passports from fall of 2013 were allowed to board an international flight? Doesn't add up at all.

I could maybe understand 1 slipping through the net, but each one after that and probability of it being true just drops through the floor.

Yes you and James digress and mislead. At least 169 illegals died crossing the border last year, even if only 1 out of 10 died, thousands would still be a good estimate. What to do with "hybrid families" is indeed a "big issue" but not the biggest issue.

I don't think stolen passports is anything to get excited about either.

The ten stolen passports being discussed is in reference to another crash (Air India, not MH 370).


The point being lots of passports get stolen because there is a booming market for false travel docs. 99.99% of the market is not terrorists, but rather migrants and crooks.

RiskandForecast.com | Risk Watch | At least 10 passengers of crashed Air India plane had fake passports

You guys needs to read the link I posted again.

I posted it to show that fake passports are more 'common' than is being reported.

A stolen passport could easily slip through...

Does every ticket agent from every airline always have instant access to the interpol Db? Are they supposed to?

Is every passport reported stolen always entered in the interpol Db?

Is every stolen passport reported as stolen in a timely manner?

I'm guessing the answer to all of these is no.

Many have since said that the photo looks more like a coral or algae bloom. I probably should have waited before posting.

I think the stolen passport issue has been put to rest....

Considering this was in cruise flight and not an approach into a thunderstorm, I consider this comment irrelevant.

Does anybody know if there is radar coverage in the area they were in?

Malaysian 777 missing
 

How does a 777 go missing for more than 2 days? That's just spooky... With all the technology on that aircraft...it just floors me.

The current Long range radar used in ATC in the US has a max range of 250 NM. I am not sure if they are using the same type in Vietnam and Malaysia.


I don't know if they were in range or if ATC was using fusion.

Yeah, looks like it, hence the reports of pilots "turning back" from a military radar site.

It is line of sight, of course, but I think the highest peak in Vietnam is only something like 10,000 feet. IIRC there is a Cardamom mountain range (like the spice) but otherwise is relatively flat until you hit China and the Himalayas.

Lack of radio communication also strange if it was not all incredibly sudden.

Anybody know if they have reinforced cockpit doors like all the domestic airliners?

Neither of us brought it up.

The stolen passport issue will become less relevant over time with better technology (e-chip disabling like the post-2007 US passports). But yes, until then, pretty big market and not surprising 1% of the passengers may have fraudulent documents. We'll see...

Exactly, totally agree. Thanks for the clarification.

Well at this point we should probably stop referring to it as missing..

Just found this on the captain of the flight:

TRIBUTE: Who exactly is Malaysia Airlines Captain Zaharie Shah of MH370? - Sharelor

Not that I personally know the guy or anything, but after reading this, I get the feeling that he was probably extremely competent and of good moral character, and unfortunately has flown west.

Very sad, seems like a very interesting and intelligent person, I hope shyguy doesn't come on here and demoralize and point blame toward him because of a failed checkride from the early 80's, like he did the UPS captain. (I don't know if the captain has a failed check ride for the early 80's but shy will let us know if he does).

Good radar coverage and CPDLC, ADS capabilities from ATC in that area, very busy airspace 24 hours a day.

AF showed how difficult it is to find and recover wreckage from the ocean floor.

Have you ever heard of this incident: Lone co-pilot 'panicked' after putting Indian 737 into dive - 11/30/2010 - Flight Global

but 2800 is not a bad amount of time-i'm just saying weird things happen. Seemed like an experienced enough crew to me.

I agree. I saw his simulator setup on another site. He seems like a guy who had a keen sense of attention to detail in his hobbies. That ethic generally transcends to work.

I hope for closure soon for the family and freinds of all involved.

Am I the only one here who doesn't think 2800hrs is a big deal ? He's in the right seat under a VERY experienced captain. There's also no mention yet of how that time is broken down. He very well may have 1000+ in the 777. It is very different from the US and I think there is a point where building time in a smaller aircraft really isn't a significant benefit.

Malaysian authorities just announced the tickets purchased using the stolen passports were bought at the same time and are numbers sequentially.

This is giving me a bad feeling.

You have to read between the lines, the comments have nothing to do with this accident :rolleyes:

Two illegal immigrants were traveling together? There's still no known motives for terrorists to attack MH.

Missing Malaysia Airlines flight: The early clues could point to Islam militants - Colonel Richard Kemp - Mirror Online

Not sure I agree with the motives that author illustrates but it is definitely possible.

Are they really that picky or really need much of a motive? :confused: I'm pretty sure your garden variety Muslim psycho would consider getting an explosive on ANY airliner a big win regardless of the paint job. Just as long as some infidels died.

Press is searching hard for a motive or a way to milk this for viewership. This is no, none, zero, indication of terrorist attack or criminal act. We do have a missing jetliner, cause not known.

Maybe a rapid decompress occurred, the rudder came off the tail, a fuel tank exploded, lithium batteries in cargo hold caught fire, etc etc happened.

We don't know. What we do know is not one terrorist group has come forward to claim credit. If this was a terrorist attack, it got kind of bungled, not sure how successful the mission was when they put this into the ocean and no "message" put out for the world to see.

Stolen passports ? "How dare security allow this to happen" Anybody seen a third world or non-Western airport terminal ?

Does anyone think a real terrorist would use a stolen passport, to travel ? Really people ?

Nazi war criminals ? Computer hackers ? Con artists/Ponzi scheme/Nigeria fraudsters ? Sex offenders ? Yes yes yes. Terrorists ? No.

BBC is reporting that the stolen passport dudes had planned to continue to Europe. Instead, they went swimming.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26509378

Gee, I am a drug smuggler, I am gonna drive my marijuana load from Arizona to New York with a stolen driver's license. Or a fake one.

Yeah, that is the path to success.

A real terrorist (do we not learn...) would use valid/legal documents and avoid any and all scrutiny prior to mission execution....

We have kids flying around with nothing, no passport, no ID, no ticket. I guess they are terrorists too ?

Rome alone: 11-year-old boy flies from Manchester to Italy without ticket | UK news | theguardian.com

9-year-old boy who boarded plane without ticket reportedly stole car weeks ago | Fox News

The garden variety wouldn't get the backing and resources from the big boys, who are actually pretty picky about their ops.

As for the bolded parts you kind of contradicting yourself. If security is lacking so much in third world countries, why wouldn't they have used stolen passports?

Not all terrorists operate the same way.

Not saying it was terrorism, but you have to look at every angle.