Small plane decided it's time to go to Cuba
09-07-2014 | 09:09 PM
#51
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From: retired 767(dl)
I was on the "10", all we had was a couple of VOR's and ADF''s, and usually inop A/P. It was always fun when ATC would clear us to a lat.-long fix. We would tell them we had the small hubcap, radio-heater delete model...
09-07-2014 | 09:38 PM
#52
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From: Window Seat
09-07-2014 | 09:43 PM
#53
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09-07-2014 | 11:30 PM
#54
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From: Window Seat
09-08-2014 | 04:40 AM
#55
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From: 127.0.0.1
From the cardiomd files - decompression on a US Air flight.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...mpression.html
Thin air in back was quite noticable.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...mpression.html
Thin air in back was quite noticable.
Ms. Hersman, Chairman, July 28, 2009 – April 25, 2014
09-08-2014 | 05:32 AM
#56
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From: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
FlightSafety had a hypoxia simulation program that ended a couple of years ago. The device was hooked up in the simulator and regulated the O2/N ratio. It was developed in concert with the Mayo clinic. It got good reviews and positive results. The difference - between this and the altitude chamber - was that you could see how it impacted your ability to comply with a clearance, fly, etc.
On one simulator session a reporter occupied the seat and alleged that he had a medical emergency using the equipment. The instructor was about to call 911 and get the defibrillator when he suddenly "came to" and self proclaimed he was well.
The implication was that he feigned the illness to get an angle on a story. Regardless, FSI terminated the program thereafter.
I never had a chance to use it but I did do through the altitude chamber at Wright-Patterson AFB circa 1993. Invaluable experience.
On one simulator session a reporter occupied the seat and alleged that he had a medical emergency using the equipment. The instructor was about to call 911 and get the defibrillator when he suddenly "came to" and self proclaimed he was well.
The implication was that he feigned the illness to get an angle on a story. Regardless, FSI terminated the program thereafter.
I never had a chance to use it but I did do through the altitude chamber at Wright-Patterson AFB circa 1993. Invaluable experience.
09-08-2014 | 05:36 AM
#57
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From: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Also remember that the aircraft was brand new at the time. The three pilots had less than 500 hrs make and model combined. Different era in CRM. A classic case study. Pretty sure I've developed a few Powerpoint slides on this one...
09-08-2014 | 06:31 AM
#58
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Huh?
Masks on at 10K+ for sure.
Rubber Jungle = sense of urgency and probably plummet immediately if TCAS looks clear.
The incidents I've had (multiple in two different types) all involved a gradually climbing cabin due to seal leaks or one outflow stuck so I'm inclined to see how much cabin pressure I have to work with before dropping like a rock. If the cabin completely dumped in the FLs, then yes you just have to go down now because the mask is a band-aid, not a cure up there.
Also it's a great idea for any turbine pilot to do a chamber run to see how he/she handles altitude. I happen to climb 10K+ mountains on a fairly regular basis so I know I'm good for strenuous activity in the teens...at least for a few hours.
If you've got a slow leak and the cabin is rising slowly you can try to mitigate it with manual out flow ETC and if you are having success it would be appropriate to work on a clearance in that case. If my cabin is climbing rapidly and the rubber jungle is eminent it's time to go down. If you wait and muddle around and play the ATC clearance game until the cabin gets into the 30's as you said above you've made a grave error in judgement. And you might just kill some or all of your PAX by doing so. I am sick and tired of hearing about people allowing ATC to kill them by not understanding what they can and should do in an emergency situation.
The last one I had we got the cabin ALT master warning when the cabin climbed above 10,000. We popped the masks on and by the time I pulled a checklist the cabin was climbing above 16,000. Rapid descent time. ATC was advised passing FL310 we were at FL320.
It was a faulty outflow valve BTW. It would not respond to auto or manual inputs.
The last one I had we got the cabin ALT master warning when the cabin climbed above 10,000. We popped the masks on and by the time I pulled a checklist the cabin was climbing above 16,000. Rapid descent time. ATC was advised passing FL310 we were at FL320.
It was a faulty outflow valve BTW. It would not respond to auto or manual inputs.
Rubber Jungle = sense of urgency and probably plummet immediately if TCAS looks clear.
The incidents I've had (multiple in two different types) all involved a gradually climbing cabin due to seal leaks or one outflow stuck so I'm inclined to see how much cabin pressure I have to work with before dropping like a rock. If the cabin completely dumped in the FLs, then yes you just have to go down now because the mask is a band-aid, not a cure up there.
Also it's a great idea for any turbine pilot to do a chamber run to see how he/she handles altitude. I happen to climb 10K+ mountains on a fairly regular basis so I know I'm good for strenuous activity in the teens...at least for a few hours.
09-08-2014 | 07:58 AM
#59
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From: Back to the right side
You can listen to the whole thing here:
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kg...2014-1400Z.mp3
On several transmissions he clearly does sound hypoxic. With hindsight it is pretty easy to realize but it would be difficult to pick up on it at the time. He does say "indication is not correct with the plane" at 4:10 and asks for even lower than 250. A first hypoxic transmission is 7:15 - 7:35 (first he "empty keys" a transmission, center tries again, then sounds somewhat fatigued / slow.) and at 8:10 he has unintelligible transmission.
At 8:44 there is a clearly hypoxic-sounding transmission. His response is "Kilo November 900 Kilo November" with slurred speech. By 10 minutes you can hear mic being keyed but no consistent response.
Sad.
Hope the manufacturer and NTSB figure out what happened to the hardware.
Can anybody here comment on personally doing hypoxia training? Was it worth it?
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kg...2014-1400Z.mp3
On several transmissions he clearly does sound hypoxic. With hindsight it is pretty easy to realize but it would be difficult to pick up on it at the time. He does say "indication is not correct with the plane" at 4:10 and asks for even lower than 250. A first hypoxic transmission is 7:15 - 7:35 (first he "empty keys" a transmission, center tries again, then sounds somewhat fatigued / slow.) and at 8:10 he has unintelligible transmission.
At 8:44 there is a clearly hypoxic-sounding transmission. His response is "Kilo November 900 Kilo November" with slurred speech. By 10 minutes you can hear mic being keyed but no consistent response.
Sad.
Hope the manufacturer and NTSB figure out what happened to the hardware.Can anybody here comment on personally doing hypoxia training? Was it worth it?
09-08-2014 | 08:04 AM
#60
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The FAA has recently commissioned a portable hypoxia chamber that works by pumping nitrogen into the box rather than sucking the air out. Makes the entire chamber modular and portable. It recently spent several days at our civilian training airport on one of its tours of the country.
Despite the fact that it can't simulate a rapid decompression, it still is invaluable training. And travel to Oklahoma City is no longer required.
Despite the fact that it can't simulate a rapid decompression, it still is invaluable training. And travel to Oklahoma City is no longer required.
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