No. Frankly, it's insulting.

While certain sections of the contract are certainly tied to the NPRM, there are parts of those sections that could be addressed. We all have issues that are important to us, and not so much to others. How about really fixing 4.A.2.b., min pay for reserve day, etc, etc....

Our management team lost my goodwill a long time ago. They abused 4.A.2.b., are taking a hard line with discipline, changed the informal accepted fares process, min manned reserve, bumped and flushed, 777 pay rates, etc.

The company wants the FDA LOA to help them save costs. We all know this, but when you have to deadhead someone to Europe or Asia, they spend thousands on airline fares. They also lose tons of productivity from that pilot because he easily spends 20-30 hours of his BLG coming and going. An FDA results in LESS PILOTS REQUIRED. I know they are also hoping to realign seniority in the FDAs. They are paying tons of passover in HKG now.

Per diem 20 cents? A signing bonus of 1% based on a company imposed 4.A.2.b.?

I believe we'll get the 3% out of them eventually anyway. That's the real advantage. What's the time value of money when it is such a small sum?

When they want to really negotiate with us, they will. We have a peak season coming up in 10 months where we will be significantly undermanned and hopefully a united crew force (I have my doubts, but I can still dream). I'll wait until they really want to talk..

I wonder if they started the "Hard Sell" of this POS today at the MEC meeting?

Right on brother....

In addition:

New hire pay is just stupid. Is Panhandling 101 part of Basic Indoc now? (For the record, this is NOT an entry level flying job).

Section 25 needs more than a little work, and I think no automatic future raise or penalty for the company dragging their feet will be a problem. If this passes, I can't see any motivation for the company to ever come back to the table.

After sleeping on it, here's some random thoughts. NPRM results aren't out yet, so, they can't negotiate those sections until new rules are in effect. Makes sense.

SS states in his video message, "...major economic portions of contract not resolved..."
What could that mean?

They want new LOA in order to fill FDA with more seniority. ALPA figures get us a payraise now, get them (and us) their new LOA.

I don't understand why so many are mad at the "bonus"? Yea it sux!! But, honestly, what did you all expect? Thousands of dollars in bonus to make up for 4a2b? We grieved it, they won it!! It's OVER!!

3%...what do you want? 4-5-6%? if you think we'd get anything more than 3%, you need to go pee in a bottle.

It is what it is...

We had leverage with the LOA last time and didn't use it, we had leverage with 777 and didn't use it, we had the 'homefield' advantage during 4a2b and instead went boldly above and beyond to help company out and stab eachother in the back.

It's our fault. Period. Our union is a paper tiger....

Who do we think we are that we DESERVE better after our performance in the past? This TA isn't insulting, what's insulting is guys calling CRS ASKING if they need help during 4a2b, what's insulting is guys picking up trips during 4a2b, what's insulting is bidding a new aircraft without a pay rate (including MEC members), what's insulting is ALPA telling us that the LOA is the "best we can get", what's insulting is that we still supported Fuel Sense during 4a2b....

This will pass, because they are dangling a 3% carrot, and a LOA "doesn't affect me" attitude.

They could have cleaned up many small things, without getting into scheduling...Accepted fares, Deviation banks, Staging protection, catering parameters, New Hire pay, Disputed pairings, real-time trip trading, reserve transparency, etc.

I agree with you, though. It'll pass. I'm sticking with my 68% forecast.

I once worked an an airline where if negotiations weren't proceeding well, we'd fly around with the speed brakes deployed. It wouldn't take long until management changed their tune

Man, I have a friend who's a poolie. The $2000 bucks a month is a damn joke now. What's it been? 25 years since that was changed?

Also, why the change in probation time? What gives?

Did the company want that really badly?

Rat, I agree with you. We could have exited 4.A.2.b. many months early if people would have flown their BLG/RLG and nothing else. Your points are right on, and it really is about unity, or lack thereof....

The past is the past. I agree that the NPRM will shape much of our contract. However, there are certainly some issues that could be addressed in these sections. 4.A.2.b. could have been fixed or thrown out.

I don't really care if the FDA LOA ever get's fixed. Those that bid it decided that the deal was good enough for them. It's the company's problem. How many guys are collecting HKG passover pay? It costs them a whole lot of money to fly SIBA. The status quo works good for me.

I'm not going to be held hostage for ASAP and FOQA. These are needed and our safety record is the pits. If the company is serious about safety, they will go ahead with these agreements.

What I see is the company abusing many parts of our contract and they want a deal on the FDAs. I completed my survey last year, and this in no way comes close to what I thought was important.

Is it better than nothing? My guess is that we will see the 3% back pay (signing bonus or whatever they call it) when we finish a contract. I can wait for it. It really amounts to a $1500 check and about a $300 month raise. After taxes, more like $1000 and $200. I could live with a 3% as long as they fix other parts of the contract, which they haven't....

I can totally see why a guy already in HKG would vote for this. It's a huge raise!!! Nevermind that you bid it when the benefits were total garbage.
The HGK FDA went extremely junior and if this TA is passed, you guys will get a lot of money.

Nothing against you but this is a no vote from me.