CVR and remains located. Very sad. They haven't brought the recorder up yet, hope it is still intact.

Lake Erie plane crash: Voice recorder, remains recovered - CNN.com

Sigh, been over this before. If you don't have anything to contribute, then don't reply with "you can't know anything as a doc blah blah blah." Please stop. If you have anything to add to the issue, then go ahead. If not, don't post. It's that simple.

The situation this guy was in, who is NOT A PRO PILOT, is one a lot of us non-pro pilots find ourselves in, who fly extensively. His situation is a lot more similar to mine than an airline pilot.

This guy had a LLC and is a CEO of a company, operating the jet under a private pilot certificate. My warning to others that may think of doing such a thing, is that with any sort of event, you will be explaining your operational history to the FAA. That is unlikely elementary to anybody, let alone the CEO pilot, who went ahead with this arrangement. The tax and operational advantages of the LLC / company arrangement are huge, and operating this above board generally requires a commercial cert, not a private certificate.

If it was all "incidental to" operation, no lawyer in the world would advise you to register the LLC address to the same one as the company, or have any signs of co-mingling.

That is correct - why I also noted private was highest certificate issue. Certificate issue just means just that, one was mailed to you. Would hope that every pilot including private / commercial ones know this.


It is really hard for any CEO not to be. He runs a beverage company full time, a demanding position that does not require constant travel. Has less than 1000 hours TT, and a private certificate, making a 15 minute flight in a jet he acquired around 3 months prior, in icing conditions in the dark.


The operator made an LLC called "Maverick Air, LLC." Ended up like Goose.


Those are facts, and I'll leave any judging to the deities and the outcomes of operating, but it is amusing to watch the usual knuckleheads try to warp horse sense (maybe he was just really, really, really experienced private pilot? Jets are just really easy to operate?). I get the feeling that if he was a doctor everybody would pounce on his inexperience.

Fly safely folks, and deep condolences to his surviving family.

Take your own counsel, genius.


That's right. He wasn't a professional pilot.

Neither are you.

There is nothing illegal about a private pilot registering his own airplane to his business, nor operating it on behalf of his business. You're a doctor, not an attorney. You're a doctor, not a professional pilot. You're talking out your backside about things you don't understand, moreover things which are irrelevant. Your assumption and guesswork here is legion.

This is not surprising, coming form you. Keep talking though. The more you post, the worse you appear, and it's at least mildly entertaining. You know nothing about the mishap pilot's qualification beyond his raw certificate date, and you've already fumbled that one. You know nothing about his experience or training. You know nothing about the mishap; at this stage, no one does. You do make a lot of assumptions, though.

You understand the implication of making assumptions, right?

I've flown a damn 747 on 15 minute flights...I've taken them on five minute flights to reposition. The duration of the flight is irrelevant. Do you think he should wait a year before he flies the airplane he bought.

You seem to think that icing conditions present some special qualification. Are you aware that private pilots fly in the dark all the time? How many hours should he have had before undertaking a night flight? How about flying in icing conditions in an aircraft approved for flight in known ice? You're aware that the Citation is a LOT more capable than your 182, right?

He runs a company. This concept does not mean he can't fly an aircraft. You have a full time job outside aviation, too. Never the less, you manage.

A friend of mine is an aviation medical examiner, a long time OBGYN, and runs a family practice. He flies warbirds, takes summers to fight fire, and is one of the best pilots I've ever met. Not a full time pilot, however, and a well established and successful doctor. I would have no problem putting my family in an aircraft with him, and I'd trust my life to him as a medical professional, as well. Having another career does not negate his ability to fly an airplane (he's one of the few people in the world who has deadsticked a Sea Fury to a successful off field landing, following a catastrophic engine failure. How about you?

You're talking out of your depth and making wild assumption in absence of fact.

You've said a lot of idiotic things, but that takes the cake for going complete dumbass.

Great. When do you start?

You wouldn't know. You haven't had the training necessary to operate a "jet," and you're not type rated either, are you. Tell us again how difficult it is to operate that airplane. Then tell us all about what happened in this event. The NTSB investigation is expensive. Your expertise could save badly needed tax dollars.

JB, why do you bother? In another thread, he implied that AF 447 would not have crashed had he been there. You are not going to penetrate that.

It probably wouldn't have. He's a doctor, after all.

Hard to believe

What is the failure rate of modern instrumentation? Have any of you high timers ever had to rely on the standby horizon? Anyone can have a bad day and lose their head but these virtual reality displays really take the fun out of clouds.

I've had a dark cockpit twice. Two different types of aircraft. It can and does happen.

Just after 9 a.m. today (Jan. 14), Conneaut Police were contacted by the Pennsylvania State Police regarding human remains found along the Lake Erie shoreline in Conneaut, about 300 yards west of the Pennsylvania state line.
Police tell WKYC that the remains were found by a man walking along the beach in the remote area.
Conneaut Police arrived and found a partially decomposed body of an unidentified adult male, approximately 30 feet south of the Lake Erie water line, according to the Conneaut Police report.
The Ashtabula County Coroner, as well as the Conneaut Police Department Detective Division arrived at the scene as well.

Conneaut Police say that the remains were removed to the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's Office for an autopsy and identification.
The matter is still under investigation.
WKYC reached out for comment to the Cleveland Mayor's Office of Communications dealing with the plane recovery operations in Lake Erie north of Burke Lakefront Airport. Crews have been retrieving wreckage and human remains from the crash that occurred Dec. 29 the past few weeks.
They replied, "We were notified that the body was found. There is not a confirmation on whether it is related to this investigation."
The search has been ongoing since the small Cessna 525 Citation plane went missing over Lake Erie shortly after departing Burke Lakefront Airport on Dec. 29.
The plane was flown by John Fleming of Dublin, Ohio. Fleming's wife, Sue, their two sons, Jack and Andrew, and the family's neighbor, Brian Casey, and his daughter, Megan, were also on board the plane.
The group was in Cleveland to attend a Cleveland Cavaliers game and was planning to fly in to The Ohio State University.

Do you feel you would make the same mistake as Mr. Bonin if your pitot freezes? If so, please stop flying and get some more sim time, for the sake of yourself and your passengers.

Good pilots study the mistakes of others so they don't make the same ones themselves.

Plonk!

Recovery of further remains ended - some sources report in better weather they may revisit the plane, CVR already recovered and useful. Search over for human remains in Lake Erie plane crash | The Columbus Dispatch