When will bidding mania begin? - Page 5 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#41

Really , 09-17-2013 02:29 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkhayes90

Pay banding is for the "me, I want it all and I want now" generation who have no idea of the history of ALPA and what our predecessors fought for.

Take that UPS!! You guys are about you according to TK!!

Time to come to ALPA!! He doesn't care that it's worked for you forever!! It's a SLI conspiracy over here!!

#42

tkhayes90 , 09-17-2013 04:08 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Really

Take that UPS!! You guys are about you according to TK!! Time to come to ALPA!! He doesn't care that it's worked for you forever!! It's a SLI conspiracy over here!!

You are absolutely correct. ALPA has always promoted decision 85, and was what the UAL side was going for in this contract. But, the mighty CALALPA side wanted pay banding to help them for SLI, now we are stuck with it.

I don't really care what other carriers do.

#43

Skyflyin , 09-17-2013 04:14 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tkhayes90

tk, didn't UAL ALREADY have pay banding pre-merger? Man that must of sucked to swallow that knowing the merger was coming.

#44

A320 , 09-17-2013 05:09 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmak2

Question: can the post-2010 "new hires" (off-the-street folks) bid to the 747 or are they considered CAL and subject to the 5-yr fence? Yes, I know we are so junior that it won't matter, but I am thinking theoretically here.

That's a good question.

#45

A320 , 09-17-2013 05:12 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cadetdrivr

For LCAL pilots new to this system, pay attention to the power of unadvertised vacancies, particularly as it involves covering attrition as senior pilots retire and the resulting importance of "standing" bids.

Example: UAL Posts a small vacancy bid with only 40 777 CA positions (~10% of next year's attrition)

Is this a bid with 40 vacancies? Nope.

In an imaginary "stovepipe" scenario this will result in 40 CAs bidding off the 767 which results in 40 CAs bidding off the 737 which results in 40 777 FOs bidding 737 CA and so on....

A small bid for large equipment can result in several hundred subsequent bid awards and training events in bases, equipment, and seats that were never part of the advertised bid.

Thus, one should always have a "standing bid" for the BES one really wants and never have anything in the computer that is not 100% desired because you just might get it even if you didn't think the bid would affect you.

Yes, beware of what you wish for, you might get it.

#46

mossimo , 09-17-2013 06:02 PM

Line Holder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyflyin

tk, didn't UAL ALREADY have pay banding pre-merger? Man that must of sucked to swallow that knowing the merger was coming.

UAL had three pay bands pre-merger as a result of the bankruptcy contract. 747 & 777, 757 & 767, and the A319/320 banded with the 737. The negotiating committee had orders to do away with as much banding as possible in the event we managed to achieve a contract before any merger.

#47

cadetdrivr , 09-17-2013 06:58 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mossimo

UAL had three pay bands pre-merger as a result of the bankruptcy contract.

Totally correct and why was that?

Because the company wanted it during BK as a....wait for it.....concession.

#48

Probe , 09-17-2013 07:29 PM

Don't say Guppy

ALPA has fought many battles since I have been here. Let me think......

RJ's are practice jets for practicing pilots - never at mainline!!!!!
NO national seniority list.
Age 65, despite the members overwhelming opposition.

The result? Non-ALPA carriers now make as much or more than ALPA carriers. 50 seat captains make more per seat-mile flown than mainline pilots. Corporate pilots now look UP into the cockpit of their lower paid peers.

#49

Short Bus Drive , 09-18-2013 09:02 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by A320

Yes, beware of what you wish for, you might get it.

Speaking of which...
Does the standing bid link on CCS only get activated when there is a bid?
I can not find it anymore. I thought you could always change it....?

#50

LAX Pilot , 09-18-2013 01:33 PM

Peace Love Understanding

Quote:

Originally Posted by Probe

Non-ALPA carriers now make as much or more than ALPA carriers. 50 seat captains make more per seat-mile flown than mainline pilots. Corporate pilots now look UP into the cockpit of their lower paid peers.

That's a terrible comparison. Clearly an Airbus or Guppy that has 3 times as many seats isn't going to pay three times as much. Its not linear like that.

Pilot jobs at non union carriers pay less overall than pilot jobs at union carriers, all other things being equal.

Using this analogy, a 747 should pay 2.5 times what a guppy makes, which isn't possible with the stupid pay banding to a 767-400.