Just a messenger here, but word has it that Envoy ALPA is considering proposing a new scheme to poach pilots from other regionals by negotiating a contractual provision that allows pilots to come to Envoy at their former regional's pay rate (present pay) ?

Apparently, the concern is because that without sufficient new-hires, Envoy is projected to contract again by next summer resulting in stagnation and downgrades and so it appears another union leadership of arguably questionable ethical standards IMO, may be willing to undermine the regional industry as a whole even further for its own interests by adopting contractual provisions that strengthen their carrier by weakening other carriers. Everyone is under pressure because of the increasingly ominous regional pilot shortage and it would appear now that individual union leaderships may now be willing adopt 'us and them' (AKA "survival of the fittest") cannibal philosophies.

Will Envoy ALPA fire the first shot through the hull in the regional pilot industries own boat, thereby beginning the sinking of the ship ?

If so, it would appear the rats are now poised to eat each other for survival and this latest possibility is but another example of the complete collapse of regional pilot future and effective unionism. The word at Envoy is that hunger among many pilots there is increasing to near ravenous proportions and they will green light any pilot cannibalism scheme there.

This self-centered low-ball move is a bad idea because;



- It weakens the industry as a whole by weakening others, many of whose pilots may become unemployed and collateral damage because they are at high enough pay scales that either won't be offered at Envoy under such a possible scheme or are in positions (captains) that cannot be obtained under lateral poaching schemes like this one may be. For every POSSIBLE winner (but no guarantee of payoff) that goes to Envoy, there will be several LOSERS left in the wreckage at the regionals that may fail or contract because of adoption of any new tactics by Envoy ALPA or any other carrier's pilots union such as this. Those carriers pilots may see downgrades and contraction themselves if not outright failure by such an appalling idea.

- It undermines Envoy's OWN CBA and PRESENT pilots as it is no different then negotiating pay raises for new-hires (to solve managements self-induced staffing problems), but NOT for present pilots, which ironically is a concept rejected by most unions and even Envoy ALPA in the past. You cannot rationalize this scheme or give it a different title or name and claim it is indeed honorable.



Although the probable goal is to prop up Envoy and hopefully correct its apparently present "house of cards" existence, pilots from any other regional would be welcomed, but one pilot mentioned PSA as a desirable target of this new 'pilot-attacking-pilot' idea. This target of course, would be bad for AAG as it extracts the upside for one of its in-house regionals at the expense of another. For AAG, robbing peter to pay paul will not work, it only shifts the problem requiring even more short-term expensive adjustments in the future. It's truly tragic that the regional pilot profession has apparently sunk to levels like this and in the long run, it is bad for the profession. It's sadder that union leaderships in their zeal to save themselves will consider anything and everything regardless of the damage to others or the profession. It's even still sadder the zest that is evident by various union water-carriers for management who have lost themselves so drastically, that they would promote such lunacy and even convince (successfully in many cases) other pilots to adopt an internal pilot attack philosophy to ensure they survive at the expense of others.

If such a scheme comes to fruition, it could unleash an all-out internal war by various union leaderships who then feel they have no alternative to protect their turf and the process of more draconian poaching consideration develops resulting in a true 'divide and conquer' reality for the regional pilot industry only one from within.

Discuss.

Did eaglefly say something? I have him on ignore.

(Yawn)
You are like the scorned ex-wife. Every chance you can ybe u want to blast away at "Eagle/Envoy". Somehow you have de-humanized it even but the truth is you are attacking the livelihood of thousands who have never done a thing to you, without wanton regard to the outcome.

Everyone that reads your drivel(and there are not many - even I skip past your BS most of time) sees your bias toward Eagle. It's obvious eagle hurt poor diddums in the past and somehow this is your vengeance.

You have a screw loose.

Lets keep the status quo by making it a financial burden for pilots to move from one carrier to another! Hey, if I had to take a pay cut to move between carriers, so does everyone else. Poo on Alpa for trying to change that.

- What I am hearing from Eaglefly

So you're saying none of this is true ?

....or, if you CANNOT say that, the only thing you CAN say is ^^this^^ ?

That's not saying much.

That's one of the rationalization I'm hearing.

'Carrier-hopping' or the urge or compunction to do so is EXACTLY one of the major reasons the regional industry is in dire-straits. You know what is ironic ?

It's ironic many of you vehemently criticized other carriers for poaching Envoy pilots in the past and see where that leads ?

It leads to the rationalization for 'divide and conquer' schemes adopted by dopey myopic pilots that really just weaken themselves by weakening others. No strong army was ever built on a philosophy of bayonetting your buddy in the back to have a better rifle.

Apparently, nowadays in this segment of the industry, it is.

EVERYONE will lose because of it.

AAG is actually considering this? When AAG was AMR, before there was a flow, AMR objected to a flow because of the number of training events created by flowing pilots from Eagle to mainline.

Now, they want to hire pilots at their current pay rate, generate multiple training events knowing said pilot will likely flow to mainline in the future or go to another major/LCC? They want to spend more money? This doesn't pass the smell test...yet!

It could. After all, airline management teams have never been accused of making sound, logical business decisions when it comes to the daily operation of an airline.

So what do you suggest? Leave the status quo? "Pay your dues!"

Haven't heard that. Apparently, this is a genius idea by Envoy ALPA that they hope to get Envoy management to bite on. If successful, I think it could easily blow up in AAG's face though and worse yet, other regional pilot unions will then circle the wagons and you'll have a poaching war which will wreak havoc on an already ailing segment of the industry.

It nauseates me to see short-sided, self-interested union leaderships disregarding principle for self-gain. I saw it for years while still at Eagle and at other carriers too. You already see the defense of such garbage and rationalizations I'm talking about. Things are obviously VERY ****ed up at Envoy right now. This is just the latest mess as they also have an attempted coup in progress with the proposed recall of both DFW reps thereby completely reworking the union make-up and also word that management may be seeking more concessions or something in return for this possible scheme Envoy ALPA may propose to slit their own throats in the long run.

It's a certified nut house, if you ask me.

I'd suggest learning from the past and not proposing schemes to strengthen yourself at the expense or downfall of others, but when have you ever agreed or even listened to anything I've said ?

In fact, considering that, why are you even talking to me ?

Shouldn't you be on the other threads selling Envoy or better yet.........go back to sleep.