UA verse AA

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Quote: This surprises me, considering Delta doesn’t have Domestic crew meals or middle seat deadhead pay and American doesn’t have a minimum calendar day pay, meaning there are 3 day trips that pay 10 hours and 4 days that pay less than 20. Seems like you’d have to work quite a few more days to make the same money at AA. Does AA have Domestic crew meals (not that they’re anything to write home about). There must be other aspects of UAs contract that fall far behind the others. ALPA put something out at one point with overall contract values that I thought had DL/UA pretty much tied and AA right behind. But of course, that was total monetary value.
I was surprised too. It’s also an opinion but it’s an informed opinion by a union guy who studies contracts.

You mention middle seat DHD pay. Most AA agents ‘work’ with DHD’s in my experience. So how often (valueable) is that portion of a contract? The guy reviewing the different contracts might have given it a different value than you did.

UA’s contract takes 12 years to match AA’s second year vacation value. It lags AA’s vacation hours until the 20th year. UA’s vacation exceeds AA’s after 20 years but it takes until the 33rd for UA’s vacation value to exceed AA’s. DL’s contract hours lag AA’s on an annual basis until the 20th year and equal AA’s total vacation value the 52nd(?) year(early 2017 contract comparison).

Maybe it’s all of the details, like the vacation difference, that had the contract SME say he’d choose AA’s contract over UA’s contract (disregarding pay).
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Quote: I was surprised too. It’s also an opinion but it’s an informed opinion by a union guy who studies contracts.

You mention middle seat DHD pay. Most AA agents ‘work’ with DHD’s in my experience. So how often (valueable) is that portion of a contract? The guy reviewing the different contracts might have given it a different value than you did.

UA’s contract takes 12 years to match AA’s second year vacation value. It lags AA’s vacation hours until the 20th year. UA’s vacation exceeds AA’s after 20 years but it takes until the 33rd for UA’s vacation value to exceed AA’s. DL’s contract hours lag AA’s on an annual basis until the 20th year and equal AA’s total vacation value the 52nd(?) year(early 2017 contract comparison).

Maybe it’s all of the details, like the vacation difference, that had the contract SME say he’d choose AA’s contract over UA’s contract (disregarding pay).
See the following contract comparison re: vacation days and hours

UAL matches AMR at year 5 for days, trails again until it matches at year 11, then exceeds AMR for the rest of ones career.


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Something to consider is total percentage of widebodies. I break widebodies into two categories, large widebody and total widebody. Since AA, DAL and UAL all have 767-300’s and all pay them considerably less then large widebodies, I break them into two separate catagories. 767-300’s and Large Widebody (767-400’s & A330 and bigger).

UAL Mainline Fleet

Narrowbody
570

767-300’s
35

Large Widebody
144

Total Widebody
179

Total Fleet
749

Large Widebody Percentage of Total Fleet
19.2%

Total Widebody Percentage of Total Fleet
23.9%

Pilot size 12,500


American Mainline Fleet

Narrowbody
815

767-300
31

Large Widebody
120

Total Widebody
151

Total Fleet
966

Large Widebody Percentage of Total Fleet
12.4%

Total Widebody Percentage of Total Fleet
15.6%

Pilot size 14,500

So UAL has 2,000 less pilots and more total widebodies and large widebodies. If UAL grows to AA’s size (not saying UAL will) you will benefit from more widebodies and sizable growth. More room for growth on the UAL side that plus more widebodies may yield better return vs slightly higher retirements on AA side.

Anyway something else to consider.

My source for fleet info. From UAL a union MEC fleet plan emailed out to pilots last Spring. For the AA fleet count the numbers listed on this website under airline profiles. The listing under airline profiles for United shows the 747-400’s (now parked) and only showed 4 777-300’s (currently have 14 and 4 more coming next year), also showed 6 less 787’s then UAL will have in early 18.
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Quote: The problem with AA's policy is it only works for the first commuter to reserve the jumpseat (is it time or seniority?). UAL's policy works no matter how many other pilots are commuting.
I’m not saying choose AA...

but this is wrong. Our commuter policy is not predicated on having the jumpseat reserved. Just adequately available seats 24 hours prior (which to me is 1, and I’m not sure they’d even check). We can even use an off line carrier as our 1 flight (which they won’t be able to check loads easily for). Also, realize the commuter policy just keeps you out of trouble, we aren’t pay protected.

But really, the commuter policy is not what makes commuting at AA better. It’s the ability to book the jumpseat that makes it better. It’s pretty dang close to the equivalent of having a ticket. I don’t even check loads or worry about my commute once I have the seat booked.
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Quote: I’m not saying choose AA...

but this is wrong. Our commuter policy is not predicated on having the jumpseat reserved. Just adequately available seats 24 hours prior (which to me is 1, and I’m not sure they’d even check). We can even use an off line carrier as our 1 flight (which they won’t be able to check loads easily for). Also, realize the commuter policy just keeps you out of trouble, we aren’t pay protected.

But really, the commuter policy is not what makes commuting at AA better. It’s the ability to book the jumpseat that makes it better. It’s pretty dang close to the equivalent of having a ticket. I don’t even check loads or worry about my commute once I have the seat booked.
UAL, you don't even need seats on the airplane. Flight can be oversold with 100 nonrevs. As long as you had two flights available you're protected. They don't even need to be UAL airplanes.
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Quote: UAL, you don't even need seats on the airplane. Flight can be oversold with 100 nonrevs. As long as you had two flights available you're protected. They don't even need to be UAL airplanes.
I have done the research from my local airport. As someone illustrated earlier, it makes a big difference for me. AA policy wins hands down
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Quote: See the following contract comparison re: vacation days and hours

UAL matches AMR at year 5 for days, trails again until it matches at year 11, then exceeds AMR for the rest of ones career.
Has UA’s vacation day value changed? The early 2017 contract comparison showed UA’s day worth 3:15 and AA’s worth 3:40. It showed DL’s at 3:30 with the first 14 days switched to 3:45 eff. 4/1/19.

FedEx, SW, UPS, and Alaska have much better vacation sections.
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And for the OP’s POV we’re just discussing contract details. If IAD and ORD are his projected home bases UA is the clear winner.
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Quote: I was surprised too. It’s also an opinion but it’s an informed opinion by a union guy who studies contracts.

You mention middle seat DHD pay. Most AA agents ‘work’ with DHD’s in my experience. So how often (valueable) is that portion of a contract? The guy reviewing the different contracts might have given it a different value than you did.

UA’s contract takes 12 years to match AA’s second year vacation value. It lags AA’s vacation hours until the 20th year. UA’s vacation exceeds AA’s after 20 years but it takes until the 33rd for UA’s vacation value to exceed AA’s. DL’s contract hours lag AA’s on an annual basis until the 20th year and equal AA’s total vacation value the 52nd(?) year(early 2017 contract comparison).

Maybe it’s all of the details, like the vacation difference, that had the contract SME say he’d choose AA’s contract over UA’s contract (disregarding pay).
AA's contract is the worst among majors. Your contract expert friend needs to do more homework.
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Quote: AA's contract is the worst among majors. Your contract expert friend needs to do more homework.
Say why it is the worst.
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