Flyingphi

I work at united and would much more prefer a AA type policy for commuters.

Mover

Recovery Obligation rules. Reassignment rules (lineholders are basically just airport reserves). Min calendar day (lack thereof)/duty rigs. Reserve days off aren't really days off. Premium pay is only 150% and the opportunities are few and far between. No holiday override pay. PBS Coverage days determined by the company. No hotel contract language. Reserve junior manning. Min days off (12 for reserve, 10 for lineholders). PBS line construction values. Profit sharing (nonexistent in the JCBA, a gift from the company and industry lagging). LTD. Short term disability. Second year (and every subsequent year) pay starts 1 year after you complete training, not after Date of Hire, which means you can finish a year with the company and still have 4 months to wait until hitting second year pay (~$15k difference for the average new hire).

The JCBA is a 6 year contract that the company basically said "you have to sign it to know what's in it" and the union happily agreed. There are so many hidden gems that are clearly in the company's favor, and what's in the pilot's favor is "Not yet implemented" or "having IT issues."

It's easier to find the few things where AA is better (commuter rules, training pay, being able to bid long call vs short call, etc.) than list every way our contract lags the rest of the industry.

Sliceback

We agree that things need to be improved. But some of the issues you mentioned aren’t as clear cut as you make them out to be.

Look at UA’s RO and tell me we’d accept it? Conversion to airport standby? I doubt it.

AA’s RO footprint is the longest (bad). Converts to 150% pay past the original footprint. UA’s and DL’s RO footprint is smaller but doesn’t convert to premium pay.

UA reserve assignment is FIFO. Does that remove all seniority when it comes to trip assignments? IDK. But if it does that’s worse.

UA has airport standby. That’s DOA at AA. How many a guys get tagged with it? IDK. But I’d guess the guy researching asked the UA guys.

What about involuntary reserve assignments at UA? Is that on your days off? Pays 125%. AA is voluntary only and pays 100% or 150% depending upon the pilot.

Those reserve issues touch roughly 25-30% of the pilots every single month.

Reserve days off appear to be the same at DL and UA. DL has a provision for more days off if line holders have lower ALVs.

DL has six Golden (“inviolable days”). Maybe they allow flying into the am of your first day off? IDK.

Does UA or DL offer holiday pay? IDK. Contract comparison didn’t mention it (or I missed it).

Do UA or DL PBS have coverage days? IDK. They’re using PBS bidding and I know some of them get slammed (few days off) at the end of December.

DL ALV cap is higher than AA’s on w/b’s (+1:30). UA’s is one hour less on all fleets (90:00 hrs). Everyone is flying more than we used to.

My guess is the guy knew the answers to the questions which is why he said he’d choose DL, then AA, then UA. This was before any improvements UA got this summer/fall.

Mover

We are airport standby with these 2-3 hour sit times. The company just doesn't call us that.

0159 HBT or 4 hrs after trip footprint, WHICHEVER IS LATER. Tell me that's not company language?

I agree and that's why I said our reserve rules LC/SC are better in that respect. But we do have guys calling for that on CnR

Reserve days off appear to be the same at DL and UA. DL has a provision for more days off if line holders have lower ALVs.
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DL only does 16 days per month on reserve IIRC. We do 18.



AFAIK, yes.


Bottom line is we're on a 6 year JCBA where the top half of the pilot group (probably you, Slice), voted for pay and nothing else. The entire contract needs to be shredded and rewritten in 2019.

Hossharris

No holiday pay at delta.

Skyward

This Thanksgiving, I'm thankful for holiday pay at SW (even for reserve).

Softens the sting when you can't hold it off...

full of luv

I Lobby for it every contract survey time but so far too many senior pilots who enjoy 2x pay if they volunteer to work it while junior folk have no option.
Now that there is a lot more junior folk entering our ranks should get more traction for future contract negotiations as then holidays would surely go more senior if they knew there was some extra bonus for bidding them instead of avoiding them and only picking up for 2x pay.

Ironically every non-union group at delta has holiday pay but ALPA has been successful in keeping it off property at Delta for the pilots.

crewdawg

I briefly worked at AAL in 2014, and now I'm at DAL. My only comparison between the two would be as a commuter to a bottom feeder reserve line (at both). My pay and QOL increased dramatically, when I came to DAL. Commuting to reserve at AAL was absolutely terrible. When I did get assigned a trip it was a 3 day that paid just over 10 hours...at DAL that same trip pays 15+45 minimum. Sick if needed was nice.

Having said that, if I had lived in an AAL base, I would have had no problem staying there. No way I would leave to force myself into a commute. Guys can justify "how easy" their commute is all day long, but it's still a commute. At the end of the day, when their rushing off to hopefully catch their commute home, I'll stroll out to the car and be home before they land, or sometimes even before they takeoff. Living in base gives you a little "super seniority," in that you'll likely get a line quicker, get to a WB or Capt quicker, because you'll not have to worry about the commute. Sitting reserve from your house on WB reserve is about as good as it gets. Based on that alone, UAL seems to be the answer.

The following are answers for DAL.

Minimum of 12-14 days off, depending on Reserve Guarantee. +1 more day if staffing is good in your category for the month.

Our golden days can be placed mostly where we want. Most guys put them at the end of each reserve block so they can't be worked into a day off. If on reserve you're automatically released at noon on your last day (before a golden day...or any hard no-fly day).

No.

Yes, and she's a cruel mistress. There are limits on how high up the list they go on coverage, depending on if it's a holiday or non-holiday month.

ImperialxRat

At Alaska each vacation day is worth 3:30 and we can trade day-for-day with open time or another pilot. Vacation days don't need to be kept together.

The drawback is that we are not paid for trips that touch vacation, and we have to pick back up to 75 hours.

Sliceback

AK’s vacation is better.

AA’s RO is the worst (0159 end time).

None of the Big 3 airlines is worth commuting to over a local based airline. SW might be an exception. That’s a personal call. At AA after 25 yrs 75% are flying international. It goes even higher with more seniority and doesn’t include junior FO’s doing international.

G4 reserve, living in base, is a different world. Nothing like n/b reserve. Two different universes, especially if the bid status only has 3-4 day trips. Five day block? Your only real concern is the phone ringing on day 1-3. If they don’t get you then you’re probably off. But when they do call you you’re gone for 3-4 days.

Think any current contract is a permanent ‘turn them down’ decision? It was too many years ago that SW paid $216, DL $182, AA $166, UA $137, and US $125. Who’s the biggest winner today? Probably the young guy who went to US. And SW is the last choice.

Legacy FO’s today are making DL CA pay from 5+ years ago.