This issue that started this thread has everything to do with the company being who they are and our union standing up and saying no.

This was a win for us and the union as it shows we won’t just take the crap that’s given us especially if it involves concessions or letting go of grievances.

What the old union did is over with. It’s time to start fresh and with a mindset that doesn’t worry about the PP’s or 824’s but with the people hired in the last 4-5 years.

Reach out to your P2P’s, show up to town halls, make your voice heard so that we approach issues from a single point and not as if we are four different groups wanting different things.

This is big. I think the Union has been torn by having to represent several different groups in the past. The lifers, 824s, PPs, new hires. And each of these groups has different priorities. The lifers gained nothing from the last LOA that is accelerating the flow of the PPs.

If we can find common ground amongst all groups and present a unified front, maybe we could make more progress. I think we can all agree that increased pay is something we want. That benefits everyone.

Let’s be honest, for most of you hired in the last 3 or so years, flow was the main reason. Sadly the best thing about Envoy is the clear path you have as an employee to leave Envoy. You should all be pushing the company and the union for the same flow language and protection that us protected pilots have. Why shouldn’t all pilots be “protected”? Are you all flying different aircraft? Out of different bases? Different passengers? The obvious answer is no. The company doesn’t seem eager to negotiate with our pilot group/union, but if I was personally choosing the fight to unify the pilot group it wouldn’t be reserve rules, it would be flow. The reality is, reserve rules don’t affect the whole pilot group, but flow does. The new rallying cry for the Envoy pilot group should be “Protect all the Pilots.”

I have to disagree with you. There is another group that is not affected at all by flow and very little by reserve rules. The lifers.

And....? They made their choice. They also represent less than 10% of the pilot group. If you have any point of substance I’d love to hear it.

Just pointing out there is still another group here.

But “they made their choice” argument applies to all of us.

Whatever man, don’t know why I even try. Good luck to you.

OK, OK, I KNOW that normal people would rather take a moderately severe beating than read something like this:

https://www.americanbar.org/content/...thcheckdam.pdf

But before you get too free with your comments on a public forum, READ THAT.

The executive summary is that when negotiations get going for a new CBA even encouraging people to just more scrupulously adhere to the terms of the EXISTING CBA can get some judges to hit the pilots and the unions with an injunction because you are allegedly changing the status quo to affect the results of the upcoming negotiation, even if all you are asking for is, to quote somebody’s avatar, ‘No Waivers, No Favors.’

OK, we all know the RLA isn’t the fairest or most balanced piece of legislation ever written, but to quote an old WWII poster, ‘Loose lips sink ships’.

Yeah, I don’t know what happened to the first amendment either, but this is the sort of legal $h|t that can and does go on. Not saying you shouldn’t discuss options or tactics to negotiate more effectively but the crew room with no management people present or one on one with the other pilot over dinner on a layover may be a more .... uh, PRUDENT way to discuss these things.

I’m a cadet..please tell me what I need to know.

Haven’t hit 500 hours yet so therefore I haven’t gotten any money.

We got an email the other day from our union saying that the company wasn't going to work with us to improve reserve. That they wanted us to drop some contractual grievances that are heading to arbitration in exchange for even talking. Not drop them and we'll give you what you want, rather drop them and we'll return to the negotiating table.

Stories of what the pilots dealt with before I got here, and now the companies dealings now, things are likely to not improve as we have a never ending stream of pilots coming on board who hear "flow" but don't realize that in the 9 years that new hires are forecasted to flow and that the industry will likely face upheaval that will take flow out of the equation.

Long story short, if you want money, go to republic or endeavor.

If you want Dallas, go to Skywest or Mesa.