Concessions in 2019
01-27-2019, 08:06 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
So a couple things..... I know most of you here weren't around back in 2014-2015 so most of you have no idea what you are asking for. Stagnation is terrible. You think it's bad now with these reserve rules? It's nothing compared to being on the bottom of the reserve list for years with these rules. Telling people not to come here isn't going to make the company suffer. It's going to make the guys on the bottom of the reserve list suffer.
Those of you hired from 2016 on were offered a shinny new jet, a 20k bonus and/or a few extra dollars per month and you came running when no real substantive contractual gains were attained. The company stopping reserve negotiations isn't a change in the company's behavior. They have never given the pilots anything unless they absolutely had to.
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
Those of you hired from 2016 on were offered a shinny new jet, a 20k bonus and/or a few extra dollars per month and you came running when no real substantive contractual gains were attained. The company stopping reserve negotiations isn't a change in the company's behavior. They have never given the pilots anything unless they absolutely had to.
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
The trouble in the industry right now is that basically all the regionals worth working for have some problem making them untenable for many. Endevour has most waiting a year for a class date and has undesirable geography, Republic has a similar wait and a shrinking ORD base, Skywest just got a pay raise but still gets this horrific "block or worst" pay structure, Compass isn't gonna last the year, the new ExpressJet is a complete unknown as of now. Where do you want people to go? Air Wisconsin?
01-27-2019, 08:10 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
01-27-2019, 08:19 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,659
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
So a couple things..... I know most of you here weren't around back in 2014-2015 so most of you have no idea what you are asking for. Stagnation is terrible. You think it's bad now with these reserve rules? It's nothing compared to being on the bottom of the reserve list for years with these rules. Telling people not to come here isn't going to make the company suffer. It's going to make the guys on the bottom of the reserve list suffer.
Those of you hired from 2016 on were offered a shinny new jet, a 20k bonus and/or a few extra dollars per month and you came running when no real substantive contractual gains were attained. The company stopping reserve negotiations isn't a change in the company's behavior. They have never given the pilots anything unless they absolutely had to.
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
Those of you hired from 2016 on were offered a shinny new jet, a 20k bonus and/or a few extra dollars per month and you came running when no real substantive contractual gains were attained. The company stopping reserve negotiations isn't a change in the company's behavior. They have never given the pilots anything unless they absolutely had to.
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
Not to mention a new hire coming here in 2016 was looking at a six year flow, not a 10 year flow.
It is absolute advisable to tell people to not come here until things change. It does work, hence the company in mid 2016 upping pay and offering bonuses. Suddenly recruitment exploded.
Apathy is the worst.
01-27-2019, 08:56 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by boiler07
So take the sick calls for example. I'm sure they went from zero to termination just based off of 4 occurrences in one year, right? /s
If there were more, it would have been presented. The lawyers argued at arbitration that the company violated their own progressive discipline policy by going straight to termination three separate times bypassing progressive discipline.
Remember 12.E.1.?
Don’t trust arbitration to do what’s right.
Things are definitely better at Envoy now than since early 2015; but schedules, reserve and management attitude aren’t among the improvements.
It’s actually disappointing that they haven’t improved those things. They’ve had the potential to be the greatest regional carrier in history, yet they refuse to adapt and continue to manage waving a big stick.
01-27-2019, 09:55 AM
#35
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 196
Very sad
Real sad to see that sh!t company running the old playbook against you guys again after the pain and long suffering we went thru to get all the “commuter” feed on one seniority list.
Now it’s just like 1989 all over again plus compass and Mesa. We had very inept “leadership “ at the local ALPA level. Sold down the river by Homer and co. Not a hell of a lot of help from ALPA national—(they wanted mainline AA on board, which they never got ). Can’t just sit around while mgt puts the screws to you and say “well, we’re gonna flow anyway in a few years”. Lots of us thought the same——-right up until about sept 10, 2001.
To even think about asking a pilot group to take concessions in this hiring environment is laughable.
Don’t do it guys.
Now it’s just like 1989 all over again plus compass and Mesa. We had very inept “leadership “ at the local ALPA level. Sold down the river by Homer and co. Not a hell of a lot of help from ALPA national—(they wanted mainline AA on board, which they never got ). Can’t just sit around while mgt puts the screws to you and say “well, we’re gonna flow anyway in a few years”. Lots of us thought the same——-right up until about sept 10, 2001.
To even think about asking a pilot group to take concessions in this hiring environment is laughable.
Don’t do it guys.
01-27-2019, 10:25 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
So a couple things..... I know most of you here weren't around back in 2014-2015 so most of you have no idea what you are asking for. Stagnation is terrible. You think it's bad now with these reserve rules? It's nothing compared to being on the bottom of the reserve list for years with these rules. Telling people not to come here isn't going to make the company suffer. It's going to make the guys on the bottom of the reserve list suffer.
Those of you hired from 2016 on were offered a shinny new jet, a 20k bonus and/or a few extra dollars per month and you came running when no real substantive contractual gains were attained. The company stopping reserve negotiations isn't a change in the company's behavior. They have never given the pilots anything unless they absolutely had to.
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
Those of you hired from 2016 on were offered a shinny new jet, a 20k bonus and/or a few extra dollars per month and you came running when no real substantive contractual gains were attained. The company stopping reserve negotiations isn't a change in the company's behavior. They have never given the pilots anything unless they absolutely had to.
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
01-27-2019, 12:19 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by DanRoman
And....? They made their choice. They also represent less than 10% of the pilot group. If you have any point of substance I’d love to hear it.
01-27-2019, 12:48 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Resigned
Posts: 1,547
Originally Posted by buddies8
So did you and all information was available. Dont like reserve leave. Dont like schedules leave.
01-27-2019, 12:53 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by buddies8
So did you and all information was available. Dont like reserve leave. Dont like schedules leave.
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