Concessions in 2019
01-26-2019, 07:16 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by wiz5422
The apathy starts with our union. They need to take a bigger stern approach with the company. To many times they have given into them by bailing them out and giving the company band aids to fix the issues they have created.
I agree that the Union needs to start a massive informational campaign targeting new hires and especially the blinded cadets.
I agree that the Union needs to start a massive informational campaign targeting new hires and especially the blinded cadets.
Of the past 6 NY CA Reps, 3 were fired at least twice. One seven times. You really expect guys to **** off the boss after that?
ALPA National? They’ll hire a lawyer and go through the motions but your still putting your career on an arbitrators decision....
How did 12.E.1. Work out?
01-26-2019, 07:20 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by Excargodog
OK, OK, I KNOW that normal people would rather take a moderately severe beating than read something like this:
https://www.americanbar.org/content/...thcheckdam.pdf
But before you get too free with your comments on a public forum, READ THAT.
The executive summary is that when negotiations get going for a new CBA even encouraging people to just more scrupulously adhere to the terms of the EXISTING CBA can get some judges to hit the pilots and the unions with an injunction because you are allegedly changing the status quo to affect the results of the upcoming negotiation, even if all you are asking for is, to quote somebody’s avatar, ‘No Waivers, No Favors.’
OK, we all know the RLA isn’t the fairest or most balanced piece of legislation ever written, but to quote an old WWII poster, ‘Loose lips sink ships’.
Yeah, I don’t know what happened to the first amendment either, but this is the sort of legal $h|t that can and does go on. Not saying you shouldn’t discuss options or tactics to negotiate more effectively but the crew room with no management people present or one on one with the other pilot over dinner on a layover may be a more .... uh, PRUDENT way to discuss these things.
https://www.americanbar.org/content/...thcheckdam.pdf
But before you get too free with your comments on a public forum, READ THAT.
The executive summary is that when negotiations get going for a new CBA even encouraging people to just more scrupulously adhere to the terms of the EXISTING CBA can get some judges to hit the pilots and the unions with an injunction because you are allegedly changing the status quo to affect the results of the upcoming negotiation, even if all you are asking for is, to quote somebody’s avatar, ‘No Waivers, No Favors.’
OK, we all know the RLA isn’t the fairest or most balanced piece of legislation ever written, but to quote an old WWII poster, ‘Loose lips sink ships’.
Yeah, I don’t know what happened to the first amendment either, but this is the sort of legal $h|t that can and does go on. Not saying you shouldn’t discuss options or tactics to negotiate more effectively but the crew room with no management people present or one on one with the other pilot over dinner on a layover may be a more .... uh, PRUDENT way to discuss these things.
Excellent post
01-26-2019, 08:37 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by Cujo665
You do that and you get targeted, hounded, written up over frivolous crap and they make your life hell. There’s a reason there’s no fight in them. The last two that organized any resistance were targeted and fired... several times.
Of the past 6 NY CA Reps, 3 were fired at least twice. One seven times. You really expect guys to **** off the boss after that?
ALPA National? They’ll hire a lawyer and go through the motions but your still putting your career on an arbitrators decision....
How did 12.E.1. Work out?
Of the past 6 NY CA Reps, 3 were fired at least twice. One seven times. You really expect guys to **** off the boss after that?
ALPA National? They’ll hire a lawyer and go through the motions but your still putting your career on an arbitrators decision....
How did 12.E.1. Work out?
01-26-2019, 08:47 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by boiler07
Lol. Informational campaigns don't get people fired.
01-26-2019, 11:27 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by Cujo665
Yep, keep telling yourself they don’t care, and don’t target organizers. No joke. 3 of 6 NY CA reps were fired multiple times. One fired seven times, one three and one twice. The most egregious was for calling the CEO a liar publicly. Another for abusing sick leave (4 times in a year) and they refused to even look at the medical records which were provided. That one lasted about a month. Their record of messing with any union rep that ever stood up to them is profound
01-27-2019, 01:05 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,657
Originally Posted by Excargodog
OK, OK, I KNOW that normal people would rather take a moderately severe beating than read something like this:
https://www.americanbar.org/content/...thcheckdam.pdf
But before you get too free with your comments on a public forum, READ THAT.
The executive summary is that when negotiations get going for a new CBA even encouraging people to just more scrupulously adhere to the terms of the EXISTING CBA can get some judges to hit the pilots and the unions with an injunction because you are allegedly changing the status quo to affect the results of the upcoming negotiation, even if all you are asking for is, to quote somebody’s avatar, ‘No Waivers, No Favors.’
OK, we all know the RLA isn’t the fairest or most balanced piece of legislation ever written, but to quote an old WWII poster, ‘Loose lips sink ships’.
Yeah, I don’t know what happened to the first amendment either, but this is the sort of legal $h|t that can and does go on. Not saying you shouldn’t discuss options or tactics to negotiate more effectively but the crew room with no management people present or one on one with the other pilot over dinner on a layover may be a more .... uh, PRUDENT way to discuss these things.
https://www.americanbar.org/content/...thcheckdam.pdf
But before you get too free with your comments on a public forum, READ THAT.
The executive summary is that when negotiations get going for a new CBA even encouraging people to just more scrupulously adhere to the terms of the EXISTING CBA can get some judges to hit the pilots and the unions with an injunction because you are allegedly changing the status quo to affect the results of the upcoming negotiation, even if all you are asking for is, to quote somebody’s avatar, ‘No Waivers, No Favors.’
OK, we all know the RLA isn’t the fairest or most balanced piece of legislation ever written, but to quote an old WWII poster, ‘Loose lips sink ships’.
Yeah, I don’t know what happened to the first amendment either, but this is the sort of legal $h|t that can and does go on. Not saying you shouldn’t discuss options or tactics to negotiate more effectively but the crew room with no management people present or one on one with the other pilot over dinner on a layover may be a more .... uh, PRUDENT way to discuss these things.
Lets be honest, we are one of, if not the best AA feeder in the system all the while doing it with a concessionary/bankruptcy contract, so its clear that we all take pride in our jobs and want to complete the mission.
As for the lifers, I agree, they are still here and need to be represented. Even still, its an improvement focusing on just two groups, one small and one large than it was prior to this with the PP's and 824's.
So lets keep doing our job, follow the FM1 and contract and push forward as a unified front.
01-27-2019, 04:36 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
The only way forward is to pile on the disputes as and when the contract is violated.
This has better effect when they end up being grouped MEC grievances that impacts company’s performance.
Long story short don’t ***** about things in the crew room, file disputes.
This has better effect when they end up being grouped MEC grievances that impacts company’s performance.
Long story short don’t ***** about things in the crew room, file disputes.
01-27-2019, 06:08 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by 402FreightDog
Union needs to draft a statement recommending against new hires coming here.
Start informational picketing.
People need to start showing up to RW’s informational sessions and let him know your displeasure with the situation. The last one I went to there was only about four people. We need to flood him. The company sees apathy and is taking advantage of it.
Start informational picketing.
People need to start showing up to RW’s informational sessions and let him know your displeasure with the situation. The last one I went to there was only about four people. We need to flood him. The company sees apathy and is taking advantage of it.
01-27-2019, 06:35 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by Timbird
I never see an announcement for his sessions.
01-27-2019, 07:31 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
So a couple things..... I know most of you here weren't around back in 2014-2015 so most of you have no idea what you are asking for. Stagnation is terrible. You think it's bad now with these reserve rules? It's nothing compared to being on the bottom of the reserve list for years with these rules. Telling people not to come here isn't going to make the company suffer. It's going to make the guys on the bottom of the reserve list suffer.
Those of you hired from 2016 on were offered a shinny new jet, a 20k bonus and/or a few extra dollars per month and you came running when no real substantive contractual gains were attained. The company stopping reserve negotiations isn't a change in the company's behavior. They have never given the pilots anything unless they absolutely had to.
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
Those of you hired from 2016 on were offered a shinny new jet, a 20k bonus and/or a few extra dollars per month and you came running when no real substantive contractual gains were attained. The company stopping reserve negotiations isn't a change in the company's behavior. They have never given the pilots anything unless they absolutely had to.
Don't advocate for people not coming here when you chose to come here under the same conditions. One could argue that Envoy is better than it was when many of you got hired. It's just a bit hypocritical of you. Envoy isn't the best but it is definitely not the worst.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
