I got out of AD at 15 years and joined an AFRC unit that had 7 AGR positions. I had apps out to all the airlines at the time and was planning on being a TR. One of the AGR positions unexpectedly opened because the dude applied for some EUCOM position so he was vacating the AGR position early. Next thing you now, I'm an AGR...the 3 year tour took me into sanctuary so they extended by AGR order to the 20 year point. If I had been hired by an airline during my 6.9 months of TR time (it was 2012, no one was hiring at the time unfortunately), I would have been that guy who dropped almost 5 years of MLOA after being on property > Indoc but < 1 year.

Luck and timing....

Once airline hiring started in 2014, units couldn’t fill their AGRs. Even today AGR resources remain unfilled.

It actually makes more sense for the 15 year officers to take orders, as the younger Guard/Res pilots hired by the majors make a lot more money on the civilian side and in most cases an active duty retirement is unattainable.

The DOD blended retirement system will fade out the advantages of taking long term mil orders for the purposes of earning a traditional full time mil retirement, as that entitlement will eventually no longer exist. Good news for the airlines (and those with an opinion similar to yours) as they will have to hire fewer pilots to gap those on mil leave.

I’ll also remind you that the company incentivized using military orders to mitigate staffing during CV. If we ever face furloughs, they will likely do it again. To say that taking orders during good times is “abuse” is disingenuous. Both sides, the company and pilot, use legal military orders when it is to their advantage.

Lying about military status is the only form of USERRA “abuse,” and is better categorized as a crime. The company can always call the commander and ask to shift mil leave if it falls in the middle of a reserve stint, etc. Good stewardship should be (and is) exercised by both sides. But to say long term mil leave is abuse, regardless of when it is taken, is ridiculous. Both the company and mil pilot “use” military leave. The only winners in both cases are the non-mil pilots, as the company hires more pilots to gap those on mil leave, and junior pilots get a seniority bump when a senior pilots takes leave.

Every pilot on long term orders right now, regardless of their seniority, is getting extra incentives above normal benefits to be away from the company for up to three years with full dispensation of the USERRA clock at the company’s request. Abuse?

Also, what do you mean by “immediately?” What about the pilot that drops mil leave in indoc because she’s being mobilized to go fight ISIS in 2014? Should she have graciously bypassed 8-9 months of seniority (1200 numbers) because she’s in the reserves? Curious of your opinion on this. You also realize that mobilizations in support of named operations don’t count against the USERRA 5-year limit?

The ESGR standard is “what would you do if you weren’t in the military?” Based on the example above, the answer is go to indoc.

Generally speaking, the side of the discussion a person falls on seems to correlate with sour grapes.

And don’t forget the company doesn’t like people taking Mil leave when things are busy... until there is a slow down and then proceeds to say “Hey! Everyone go on Mil leave please!”

If you are in the guard/ reserves you are in during the good times and bad. With obligations during both. You can’t have it both ways.


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I've never dropped long term mloa and just worked a job in the the squadron, but we sure as heck needed our guys to do that over the last 5+ years. We were giving AGR gigs to dudes from other services who weren't even qualified in our jet, because we couldn't fill our AGR spots due to the airlines hiring. If our airline guys hadn't taken some long term MLOA, our squadron would have been hurting in the experience department, big time. Also, lets be real on the "moral/ethical" talk...as if the company had the moral high ground on that...

It is a thing. You’re correct, very difficult to do and rarely happens. (The ‘08-‘10 and now ‘21-‘24 USERRA extension make it more doable. I just turned down an AGR position that would have gotten me to an AD retirement.) Timing is everything and there is no justice.

Yet, it is a very common complaint against mil guys/gals. But it’s not abuse.

What is this “USERRA extension” you speak of?

anyone who goes out on MLOA before June 2021 will not have the time counted toward the USERRA limit (up to 3 years)

So it’s a local DAL company policy? Not a federal change to USERRA?

Yes. Part of a LOA earlier in the plandemic

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