crewdawg

That is incorrect. On the narrowbodies you can absolutely drop the middle day of a 3-day block of reserve, I've done that many times when I was NB. On a WB, it "may" be denied if you're trying to drop a day that would drop that reserve block below 4 continuous days or MSL if your category has one. I never once had one dropped (below 4 on a WB), but it wasn't for lack of trying.

I think some people on here are conflating reserve rules (3-99-5/4-99-4), which are used for line construction and X-days moves, with personal drops...that's two different things. Look up 23.I.9 along with exception 1. There is nothing about 3-99-5 in that section.



It's only half wrong. He's correct for NB and "may" not be correct for WB. What's erroneous is your linking reserve rules to a personal drop.
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TED74

As I stated far above, I was talking about NB category, which absolutely allows the mid-string PD. I was unsure about WB/international rules and said so. I also acknowledged MLOA can do things (like drop when days are black) that cannot be done with a PD. That's what happens when federal law overrides the FOM. MLOA days can also be pre-posted (as the company requests), and may not be denied, unlike PDs. 4-99-4 and 3-99-5 are mostly irrelevant to the post-award discussion we are having. But I did draw a neat little picture just for fun, so thanks for the suggestion.

The company has also exercised their option to only partially drop a trip with MLOA and get a mil pilot back on the portion of a trip (e.g., on Christmas) that itself wasn't covered by the MLOA days (and of course reduce pay in proportion). Naturally, the mil pilot can't do that with his own discretion...if he has to use a single day of MLOA to attend a mandatory function and an entire sweet 8-day falls off his schedule (and paycheck), he's out of luck.

As it turns out, many of the ANG units that employ our pilots have air sovereignty defense obligations that are 365-day commitments uninterrupted by holidays. Sharing in the burden of covering shifts on Thanksgiving, Christmas, 4th of July, Super Bowl Sunday etc. is part of being in such units. Someone has to be ready to launch the alert fighters and intercept an airliner when both pilots fall asleep "working on their bid", amiright? Not every mil pilot who takes leave over holidays is gaming the system and many are just trying to please two masters and a family at home. If it feels good to begrudge folks you don't know, whose situations you don't understand, have at it. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. As human beings with professional and personal relationships at their unit, it isn't surprising that they might get more satisfaction helping out the military side than showing up to be an anonymous cog at a Fortune 500 company like Delta.

Wolf424

A little understanding goes a long way.

If you haven’t been a reservist/guardsman in awhile, or never been one, ask the mil guys you fly with about it. The vast majority aren’t “gaming” the system and are simply trying to balance their commitments. Today’s guard/reserves isn’t your Dad’s. It’s active duty light (as far as tempo and requirements).

20Fathoms

Thanks for the corrections guys. I’ve always had my mid reserve block drops denied no matter how good the coverage. Glad to hear the narrow bodies have the ability to drop mid block. Definitely didn’t know that widebody guys could do so on paper as well. Does sound like it’s just on paper though. I’ve never heard of a WB guy getting the middle day of a block of 5 successfully dropped.

crewdawg

Tried it multiple times over 3 years on a WB and never once had it honored. But I once had a buddy have an APD approved over Christmas, so anything is possible.

Gunfighter

I was part of an ANG unit that had a habit of scheduling drill weekend on Super Bowl Sunday. One year after preposting MLOA over drill weekend, I fielded a call from an office dweller letting me know that USERRA gives the employer the option to ask if the military duty can be rescheduled. I asked if he could make his next call to my commander, because that was my best shot for watching the game. Unfortunately he declined to make the call and I went to drill instead of getting a game compatible layover. It really pixxed me off that he would call to tell me what Delta could do, but was too chicken5417 to actually make the call. My GAS factor was adjusted appropriately...

Another year I learned secondhand that I was on a list of pilots using Mil Leave over Christmas and New Year. I asked if they were also tracking the 30 pilots junior to me in the same category who successfully bid a week or more off over Christmas. I didn’t get a response to that question, rather it was just mentioned that they track leave across the entire pilot group and I wasn’t being highlighted.


I gave up trying PDs outside of a 4-99-4 or equivalent years ago. I have successfully used my APD for Christmas, but never while based in ATL. Key takeaway, bid NYC not ATL if you want holidays off.




Pilots who brag about using MLOA for personal benefit, like the F18 driver during indoc are not helping. It was a pleasure serving alongside many great warriors, but I had no idea some of them were too stupid to consider the audience before speaking. If you are maximizing the benefits of MLOA, good for you, thank you for serving, but 5TFU so you don’t highlight a “good deal”.

RunFast

🤣🤣🤣

filler

RunFast

that right there is bs. That is clear abuse and those guys get a talking to from CPs. It is tough to meet the trigger as a line holder and doing MLOA. Maybe not as a reserve.

A guy getting hired and taking long term MLOA in the first year is not. You ( the plural, not sailing) have no idea what the unit needed, whether or not it was school orders, etc. A guy that does 15 years AD, gets hired by DAL, finishes the first year then goes out on 5 years of orders isn’t abusing it either. Again, you don’t know the situation. However, if the individual is bragging about about skipping the crappy years, then he’s probably a d-bag.

in ‘08, Delta was begging guys to take MLOA. In ‘10, that all changed (in fact, that’s when they decided to start counting USERRA time). In ‘20, they were begging again. In ‘21, it changed again. Delta has used it to their advantage. Mil guys can use it to their advantage without abusing the system.

for the record, I’ve been here 12 years and I can count the amount of times I’ve dropped MLOA during a bid month on one hand. When actively flying for DAL, I bid PBS around my mil duty and family obligations. I do not prepost MLOA. Then I fly that schedule. Otherwise, I drop long term orders if the unit needs me. I did it while a junior NB commuter and while having decent seniority as a WB commuter.

DeltaboundRedux

SNORT!

Gawd darn. I wish I'd gone through the military route (of 30 years ago, not now. Yuck. Sounds like a woke jobs program writ large; plenty of that in the private sector at a tenth the price. Cough cough. DIE already. )

Knew a great USMC Master Sergeant (ret) Force Recon/Drill Sergeant going through civilian world flight training on the GI bill. Used to amuse (and horrify) his trusted buds by showing them his personal photo album full of non-sanitized pictures of Gulf Goat-Rope I...prominently featuring burning Iraqi tanks and half-charred corpses climbing out with cigarettes the passing Marines would put in their lips. ("Smokers". Get it? Subtle, those Marines. Good shots. Loud voices though. Smarter than you'd think on first impression...this guy spoke fluent Tagalog; needed it to woo his Pilipino wife who came to the US and became an MD )

Good times. "Blue Falcon", indeed.

Anyhoo, as a 100% civilian flier, trust me: there's a huge portion of us out there that don't know squat about active/reserve transition to big-D flying issues. Mostly just jealous of your pensions (which you earned). ***** away in the cockpit, please. Knowledge is power, and if you'd like the union to help, it would help your cause to get the clueless (me) onboard.

The generic saying about 1% peeing in the pool ruining it for the rest of us probably applies.

RunFast

What’s wrong with utilizing your 5 years of USERRA? Why wouldn’t you get hired then finish your career to get to an AD retirement?

But you’re ok with guys doing all their flying at the end of one month then bidding reserve the first half of the next so they are limited by 117 and can’t be utilized by CS? That wasn’t the intent of FAR 117.