The board won't let me PM. Try "clear and a 10**6" Eticket in hand for class but no hotel info yet

CJ: Rumour mill has Detroit (DTW) as the junior place and no info on commuting yet. Biggest question will be schedule and to/from where. They are on CASS so there should be a choice.

From what I've heard it goes DTW > MSP > MEM in order of seniority for Captains, and just about even for FOs, though with DTW most junior. Its where we'll start, no doubt. Commuting won't be any more (or LESS) of a problem than anywhere else. If you haven't commuted to an airline job yet, you're in for a treat. It is one ridiculous way to live. God forbid you have a wife/family. On the bright side you'll get plenty of time to read / work on those USA-Today Sudokus. Commuting involves checking flight loads on the internet the days/night before, then dressing up in your gear and walking up to the counter (your SIDA badge gets you through security) to fill out one of those little forms while flirting with the counter-cutie. Let's hope she's cute. Or with American you have to call first to list yourself as a non-rev. Its really not all that hard, in practice, though it does take some time to really finesse things and maximize your free time. Fri, Sat, and Mon are the worst days to commute, in my limited experience. Commuting makes this job possible for better than half of all flight crew members, I'd bet. But it still sucks, in the end. I can't wait for the utopic splendor of living in the same town I work in. Cheers!

Thanks for your well written post. But, there are several things that got my attention:

1. First, are you on the line flying now (started last DEC) or do you start your training at Pinnacle on the 12th?

2. If you are still waiting to start training, I think you have been listening to the Pinnacle Management Propaganda.

3. My friends who are still at Pinnacle are not happy, they don't know if the company is going to be around if NW pulls the plug or dies. I had dinner with a EX-Pinnacle Capt (who is now at Polar) last week and he is so happy to be out of there. He says Pinnacle is just as bad as NW, only with less pay. NW management is always whipsawing Pinnacle, Mesaba & the mainline pilots to get the lowest cost. Not that this is any different from the other carriers.

4. The idea of 1.7 year upgrade, is just not going to happen, you are going to be stuck in the right-seat for a long time. Why do you think the F/Os are leaving? The majors are not growing, only the LLCs and they have lots of highly qualified candidates.

5. The New Co thingy (scope), is ALPA's line in the sand, the NWA mainline pilots are not going to give away jobs they already have. They will strike over scope, even if it brings down the company. There is already 39% of the pilots who were against the pay-cut, if scope is added to the list, more than half will walk.

If I were you, I would get checked out and keep applying to the others. If a better job comes along take it. The first down sizing at Pinnacle and you will be on the street. I hope to sound so negative, but this is just how things are for NWA, Mesaba & Pinnacle right now. Good Luck in your training, but keep your options open.

A disgruntled NWA Pilot.

Better known as the AA factor or the AMR way ;-)

Very well written.....I've been at Mesaba about a year now and am on the Furlough list for Feb 27th.....I left an "ok" job flying left seat in King airs and C-421s and took a 50% pay cut to come to Mesaba.... At the time Mesaba was one of those companies that you wanted to work for. They were in the middle of some growth and all signs were looking good. I soon found out that NWA management are one of the worst cut-throats in the business. They don't care about the employees or their families. It doesn't matter if you're a lav change guy or a pilot. All of their employees are just another expense...including the pilots. Pinnacle is no different. I have several buddies who are still F.O.s after 2 years...and most of them hate it there.

All that to say, be careful about choosing a regional to work for if they operate as Norhtwest Airlink. It would be a big gamble right now. Maybe in the end when everthing pans out, it might ok. But for now, especially if you're going to commute, there are much better choices out there.

Good Luck though in any decision you make.

Thanks for the information, I am a new"hire" in the Dec 12 class, and this is all very relavent stuff. I turned down several other opportunities to take Pinnacle, which would be my first pure-jet job, and I very much hope it works out. My family and I want to live/be based in MEM, and if that's possible, I'll be willing to be flexible about some things. I commuted to work for a *commuter for a while and pretty much got treated like an otherwise useless cog in the wheel. Except for the flying I generally hated it. If this job doesn't work out I will very seriously consider flushing this whole pipe dream and never looking back. But for now I'm going to do my best in training, and I'm not changing anything until I've had my turn at the helm. I deserve it for all the work and money it's taken to get here. I think Pinnacle will be a great place to hang my hat, and let's face it, they've got the BEST-LOOKING airplane and the BEST-SOUNDING callsign around.

One of the previous posts said something about a "Failure rate in training as high as 53%" Why would they allow that many fails if they needed warm bodies to fill the right seats? What have you heard about Pinnacle's training department. Is it at least quality training?

btw, I almost went to Mesaba back when I was taking the commuter job, how do you like it there Saab340? Upcoming furlough notwithstanding.

Actually, one of my buddies at Pinnacle also told me at that time that the failure rate for F.O.s was 50%. It all goes back to the training department. He failed his sim ride the first time. He said he was getting yelled at during the checkride and his examiner's phone kept ringing and he kept answering it during the middle of his V1 cuts. I could't believe it and neither could he. He called me that morning and didn't know he failed. They are actually supposed to tell you right away if anything was unsatisfactory, but they waited about an hour after the ride was over. He said the whole experience of the training and the training department was "hell on earth."

Mesaba on the other hand was a good experince. Excellent training department with great facilities. Paid training and benefits from day1. Paid hotel in training with your own kitchen. All in all I like the company and the job. Hopefully everything works out.

Sorry to here that you are getting laid off. I only know a few F/As at Mesaba, but they seem to like there. It sounds like a much better place to work. Good Luck! I am sure we will all need it.

The biggest percentage of Pinnacle experts seem to be Saab340 or Avro drivers. Much of the Pinnacle bashing on this site and other similar sites comes from this group. One word comes to mind, 'jealous'.

As a Pinnacle pilot, I will give you my opinion on Pinnacle.

1. The pilot group is safe, competent, and professional. In nearly 3 years of employment, I have yet to personally witness anything different. What a great bunch of people to work with!

2. I get paid exactly what Pinnacle said they would pay me, when I agreed to work here. It is not the best in the industry, but I knew what the pay was going to be when I chose to come here.

3. I upgraded in less than a year and a half. I was lucky with my timing. I do feel fortunate I landed here when I did.

4. I feel fortunate to have this job. Almost everyone I fly with feels the same way.

5. There is a small percentage of disgruntled very vocal whiners. This is no different than any other company.

6. No doubt, NWA whipsaws Mesaba against Pinnacle. But, I just don't hear ANY Mesaba bashing from my peers here at Pinnacle.

7. I am sure Mesaba is also a good place to work. It just so happens I weighed both options, and at the time, thought Pinnacle was my best bet. NO REGRETS.

8. Pinnacle is now hiring. Mesaba is now furloughing. Which seems like the better opportunity. Attrition means movement up the seniority list. Since when is that a bad thing?