I thought if you worked to 65 you died at 64.

Maybe true on the DC-10.... but, maybe not true on the 727.

The compnay has said there should be a DC-10 excess bid in the near future, but has not said the same thing about the 727.

If the events of the past few weeks prove anything, it's that the future is very unsure and you never know when the music is going to stop playing.

Thus, you better take whatever chance you can to change seats, if you are not happy/satisfied with your current seat.

A'o Aloha

Should we (collectively) really allow this to happen?

Does it make sense from an economic standpoint?

Hey, Age 65 is now the law, but we should not implement it in such a fashion that it just creates a useless, unproductive cost center --- that hurts everyone.

If I try to pickup a trip in open time that has a "legal violation", VIPS will deny it.

If an over 60 FO bids an international line they cannot legally hold (i.e. the Capt is over 60), then perhaps they should be denied the line and awarded the very first line their "seniority...AND...age" can hold.

Of course, someone will ask --- What if the FO is senior to the Capt?

...shouldn't the Capt be the one forced to lose the line.

I guess we could debate that, but my initial thought is "no".

That priviledge stays with the Capt ---if you want it, then upgrade.

Anyone know what happens now when an F/O with less than 75 hours in the aircraft tries to pick up a trip in which the Capt has less than 75 hours in the aircraft (or vice versa)? Is the trip trade denied by VIPS for legality? Same for holding a line. If so, then I would think the age 60 rule would work the same way.

I believe you are right on. Nothing need change, at least in the bidding process. The captains bid closes, then the first officers, then the second officers. If a captain over 60 is already on an international trip, then the over 60 first officer should get his first choice of trips that he can legally hold. If his first choice was the line that the over 60 captain had been awarded, the computer should just bypass that line and look at the first officer's next choice. A more difficult issue might be the assignment of RFO lines or reserve assignments, but that's the companys problem, not ours.

Ah, but on the mighty Mogan David, you might have a line with 4, 5 , 6 or more pairings, all with different Captains. So if the number one F/O, over 60, has one 6 CH trip with an over 60 Capt, his whole line should be scrapped? Maybe an e-mail telling him to pick something else out of open time would be more appropriate.

And what if the Capt has vacation that month....and is only flying 1 or 2 pairings.....what happens then?

A more JR FO gets that line because of a small percentage of legality problems?

if the over 60 f/o doesn,t like it, he could retire.

Yes the FO isn't allowed to pick up the trip.

When I was a new MD FO out of training, I bid my first monthly line.
When I saw my Bid award "Line 123" I noticed it was my 5th choice.

I went to the line awards and noticed my 4th choice went to a FO who was JR to me. I called EB at crew planning. He ran the numbers and finally determined that the CAPT on line 123 was just out of training too.

So they gave my line to a JR FO who had over 75 hours.

I did get paid protected for the higher of the line value, but that is that they handled it. I suppose it isn't too far a stretch to think that is how 2 over 60 Pilots would work.

What if the FO is senior to the captain? Could happen...

So...does seat or seniority take precedence?

Interesting times...