NTSB faults FedEx pilots - Page 2 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#11

MAWK90 , 12-27-2006 08:10 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by CE750

That is a very valid point.. I have a friend who said this to me recently about how the 10 and the 11 have different characteristics on the landing. There is need to discuss more in depth the difference in the handling of the two aircraft and the wisdom of flying both back and forth.

That said, this is for me, further proof positive that the politics of gender and political correctness has no place in airline hiring practices.. LIVES are at stake.

The 727-100 and -200 and -Valsan all land differently too. How hard can it be to realize that you are in a MD-10-10 and know that you don't let the throttles retard when they want too? It's not the space shuttle folks, it's an airplane.

Regarding the accident, let's not all proclaim to be aces of the base. I have flown with plenty of folks, from all backgrounds (myself included) that smash one on, lowering the touchdown zone every once-in-a-while. I understand that this particular pilot had some issues on past check-rides, but we currently have hornet drivers, viper drivers, and RJ drivers failing checkrides too, you aren't immune to having a bad day.

The only people that really know what happened from 50ft on in are the two folks in that MD-10 that day. My guess is it could have been any one of us in that particular situation.

IMHO of course

#12

MX727 , 12-27-2006 08:40 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt_zman

BTW, this article is dated May of 2005, why post it now?

The post is also from May of '05.

CE750 brought it back to the top to post the link to her profile in the magazine.

Even more ironic is the website appears to offer no new info after 2002. Not sure if the magazine is even still around.

#13

FlyerJosh , 12-27-2006 08:53 AM

Chief Jeppesen Updater

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetjok

Yes, and this happens ongoingly here at FedEx. There is NO need to discuss more, in depth, the differences in the handling of the two aircraft, for anyone outside the FedEx community, as we are THE only operators of the MD-10. Some stuff should remain in-house (IMHO). When other operators start flying the MD-10, then the dialog should be opened.

What is most amazing to me is that the accident board found that neither fatigue nor weather were contributing factors. Have they ever found fatigue as a factor? If not, why not? And if the wind were directly down the runway, this accident probably wouldn't have happened. Please don't misunderstand, I am not coming out in support of this pilot. I would just like to see less political correctness in the NTSB's accident investigation and reporting.

They have found fatigue as a factor in other accidents:

Quote:
On June 1, 1999, at 2350:44 central daylight time,1 American Airlines flight 1420, a McDonnell Douglas DC-9-82 (MD-82), N215AA, crashed after it overran the end of runway 4R during landing at Little Rock National Airport in Little Rock, Arkansas. Flight 1420 departed from Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, Texas, about 2240 with 2 flight crewmembers, 4 flight attendants, and 139 passengers aboard and touched down in Little Rock at 2350:20. After departing the end of the runway, the airplane struck several tubes extending outward from the left edge of the instrument landing system (ILS) localizer array, located 411 feet beyond the end of the runway; passed through a chain link security fence and over a rock embankment to a flood plain, located approximately 15 feet below the runway elevation; and collided with the structure supporting the runway 22L approach lighting system. The captain and 10 passengers were killed; the first officer, the flight attendants, and 105 passengers received serious or minor injuries; and 24 passengers were not injured.2 The airplane was destroyed by impact forces and a postcrash fire. Flight 1420 was operating under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 121 on an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

The flight crew's failure to discontinue the approach when severe thunderstorms and their associated hazards to flight operations had moved into the airport area and the crew's failure to ensure that the spoilers had extended after touchdown.

Contributing to the accident were the flight crew's (1) impaired performance resulting from fatigue and the situational stress associated with the intent to land under the circumstances, (2) continuation of the approach to a landing when the company's maximum crosswind component was exceeded, and (3) use of reverse thrust greater than 1.3 engine pressure ratio after landing.

#14

MD11Fr8Dog , 12-27-2006 08:55 AM

...Whatever It Is!

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt_zman

Crew bus rumor has it that she just got her job back, which is unbelievable because there is alot more to this person than this report states. Just hope she doesn't kill anybody next time.

BTW, this article is dated May of 2005, why post it now?

I heard she was offered an FE job with no chance to upgrade.

#15

fedupbusdriver , 12-27-2006 09:47 AM

Gets Weekends Off

I do not think that they can limit you like that. Only recommend that you not attempt to upgrade.

#16

Jetjok , 12-27-2006 10:17 AM

Gets Weekends Off

FlyerJosh,

Thanks, I'd forgotten about that accident. Wasn't the captain one of their Chief Pilots with very little recent experience? Lot's of errors were made on that one.

#17

TonyC , 12-27-2006 10:30 AM

Organizational Learning 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAWK90

Having flown the 727-100, -200 (and Valsan variant of the -200), and having flown the DC-10, the MD-11, and the MD-10, I can tell you that the differences in the 727s do not compare to the differences between the MD-11 and the MD-10.

In the 727s, you fly the exact same tail, with the exact same mechanics. Yes, there's an extra distance from the tail to the Center of Gravity, but the mechanics are the same. Yes, there's an extra distance from the CG to the cockpit, but the mechanics are the same. Yes, there's a different height of the cockpit above the ground, but the mechanics are the same.

Between the MD-11 and the MD-10, the mechanics are ... not ... the same. The yoke is positioned differently, at different rates, and with different forces. The yoke manipulates different tails. No, it's not the space shuttle. One's an airplane, and one's an airplane with a computer playing along.

Quick comment on Jetjok's observation. APC is as close as I know to an open forum where FedEx pilots can discuss topics of interest. There are a few others (and one that I prefer, but that's irrelevant), but this one seems to enjoy the best participation. I view this as a good venue for sharing information among FedEx pilots. Can you think of a better place to discuss the topic out of the view of "non-FedEx" pilots? I think this currently reaches the largest percentage of the target audience.

.

#18

Lindy , 12-27-2006 12:17 PM

Gets Weekends Off

There is one.....

Here is a link to an accident involving fatigue:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...93RA060&rpt=fi

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...11X13127&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...93RA060&rpt=fa

one link is pdf format, another is the "factual report"

#19

CE750 , 12-27-2006 02:16 PM

Indian Takeout Driver

Quote:

Originally Posted by MX727

Thanks.. at least someone bohered to read the two links and figure out my point / conclusion.

#20

42GO , 12-27-2006 02:30 PM

Gets Weekends Off

If it weren’t so serious you could almost laugh at the number of our OWN guys who want to blame, “the airplane”, “the company”, the manufacturer”’, or any one else they can lay the blame on. The Union has spent Millions defending for the most part the indefensible, but getting anyone to step up to the bar and admit is is almost impossible to find.
"The yoke position", come on guys....10,000 good landings a month and we are blaming yoke position....we all need to look in the mirror because we have to do it, no one else can or will. We are professionals who have flown multiples of airplanes for far too many years.